mardi 17 mars 2015

Where I Get a Dislike to Mark Stahlman

1) New blog on the kid : Chris Ferrara the Conspirator, 2) HGL's F.B. writings : Debate with John Médaille on Geocentrism, 3) Correspondence of Hans Georg Lundahl : Getting Back to Tom Trinko on Geocentric Satellites and Some Other Things, Especially Whether Literal Belief is Protestant, 4) With David Palm and Sungenis, 5) With David Palm, Sungenis, Robert Bennet and Rick DeLano, 6) Christopher Ferrara Bumps In And I Get Angry, 7) Aftermath of the Quarrel, 8) Diatribe with Robert Bennett (Two Teas), 9) HGL's F.B. writings : Continuing Debate with Mark Stahlman and John Médaille and Others (sequel I), 10) Continuing Debate with Mark Stahlman and John Médaille and Others (sequel II), 11) Where I Get a Dislike to Mark Stahlman , 12) John Médaille loses interest, after giving an interesting answer (real sequel III)

Hans-Georg Lundahl
No, I do not commit myself to studying.

I am debating you, if that is of any interest, I do not consider the topic worth studies if involving facts and factoids that cannot even be presented openly and as crucial before I have committed myself to studying them.

Mark Stahlman
HA!! Then you are conducting a ONE-SIDED "debate"(ala Narcissus?) -- which I suspect is something that happens to you all the time . . . <g>

Hans-Georg Lundahl
I was conducting a debate with John Médaille, where I really had studied the matters ten times over.

You introduced a sideline, which I do not think worth pursuing.

But I was debating you anyway to get you off, and your suspicion is not very interesting to me in itself.

If you happen to be a shrink, it can be deleterious, but as it happens, it is not in itself very interesting.

Mark Stahlman
I just noticed that Lyndon LaRouche came up in one of your *debates* -- why did that happen . . . ??

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Well, like Chesterton he is not a fan of big big companies and crony capitalism.

I happen to think he is right on many things, though not all.

He wants for instance to water the Sahara using desalination plants powered by uranium. I want the same effect without the uranium, if that can be had. Best of all, without electricity at all.

Now, I have known about him since back in my senior high school days. And he also has sth to do with the debate here, namely as an admirer of Kepler and non-admirer of Newton.

What John Maynard Keynes had to say about Newton as "not first of age of reason but rather last of Sumerians" was very familar to him when he wrote back then and presumably is so still.

And I think the documentation of JMK is above doubt, he had bought Newton's belongings on an auction.

So, this has even before I became a Geocentric (about this world and not just Narnia and Middleearth) been part of my thoughts on astronomy. And Kepler, obviously, was not a believer in universal gravitation nor in spiritual non-significance of the arrangement of the solar system.

Riccioli, as I found out way later (last year in fact) considered wrong of Kepler to believe movements of celestial bodies due to inherent non-living principles (in Kepler's case some kind of electromagnetic theory, like "electric universe" hated by atheist astronomers like Phil Plaite and dear to Chuck Missler). But even electric universe is closer to Medieval theory than Newton-Laplace mechanics are.

Were you referring to this one?

HGL's F.B. writings : Lyndon and Benito

If you note what labels there are, it says "articles, eng" so unlike the mirror of my debate with John Médaille this was not classified as a debate.

So, presumably you referred to sth else.

Sth like :

HGL's F.B. writings : Defending Commons and feudalism against Locke on FB, and legal kingship against supposedly powerless one

Or here:

HGL's F.B. writings : Debate on communism (posted on day before and day of St Justin Martyr, A. D. 2010)

Or here:

HGL's F.B. writings : GP tries it again - after attacking Alveda King

HGL's F.B. writings : A Correspondence with an Adherent of Capitalism

Mark Stahlman
No, I noticed it in one that you linked to above -- so how did you know of LaRouche in your *high school* days (and where was that Weisbaden) . . . ??

Hans-Georg Lundahl
I was given a ticket to a conference of New Solidarity which another guy was given but didn't want.

That is how I came to know of Schiller Institute etc.

I was at a boarding school near Stockholm, in Sigtuna. Conference itself was in Stockholm or another suburb. That was mid to late eighties.

In one I linked to above?

That escaped me, which one?

Mark Stahlman
This one –

Correspondence of Hans Georg Lundahl : On : Benedict XV, To/From : mhfm1, Dates: 29-VII - 4-VIII-2013

Did you go to the Conference and meet anyone? Are you involved with them today -- other than following what they have to say online .

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Ah yes, "Tycho Brahe had to do away with spheres, his heliocentric disciple Kepler (as you will know from Lyndaon LaRouche's laudatories of this man) actually thought he could save the spheres by becoming heliocentric."

I will have to correct spelling of his name.


As it was 1-VIII-2013, I had forgotten.

I met people who distributed the paper New Solidarity, I have been curious whenever I could lay hands on one, but never been what one would normally call an adept.

The fact that LaRouche considers:

  • Catholic Church to have been founded on Roman Pagan worship of Saturn;
  • Reactionaries at 1815 ALL as bad as Castlereagh (and me being pro-Austrian, against "Italy" a k a Sardinia too)

was not quite to my taste. Also I think he grossly simplifies Socrates and unduly identifies him with technological progress.

As mentioned, Sahara should not be watered by Nuke power. It would be good for the population there, but bad (as usual) for where Uranium is being mined for.

In other words, their main contribution to my thought has been to make me anticapitalist and anticommunist and sceptical of modern mainstream media and school versions of recent events.

And of course also on the outlook for where La Rouche got his errors on history from.

Mark Stahlman
That's quite a lot (generated by the son of a Quaker "fundamentalist," thus the antipathy to the Queen) . . . !!

So, what would say if I told you that they have always been a (Cold War) CIA "front" organization (like many Trotskyists of his generation) . . . ??

Hans-Georg Lundahl
I would:

  • doubt the information;
  • acknowledge he was an ex-Trotskist
  • and consider it irrelevant for where he is right, where of course he is right and also for where he is wrong where of course he is wrong.

Of course not totally irrelevant, it explains perhaps a few quirks which would otherwise sit somewhat badly on his general talent, but irrelevant as to what I gave my partial consent and partial dissent.

It only explains a few of the things I dissent from, apart from also co-explaining, in a non-inportant way, what he is right about. Or some of them.

Btw, it is the kind of explanation he is fond of overdoing himself.

That Enlightenment (which I don't like) was a plot by secret services of Venice, Ok, but when he claims Romanticism (which I like) was also so, he loses me.

Mark Stahlman
Yes, while I'm not a Freudian, I think that would be called PROJECTION on LaRouche's part . . . <g>

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Did so back then, or as soon as I knew it, does so now.

Especially since the "Classicists" which he endorses were in their time by some considered as earliest "Romantics" in music.

BUT his / Schiller Institute's enthusiasm for the Classic Viennese school has of course been shared by me. "Enlarging the phrase from within" - ok, I said, how do you do that? And I looked for answers and found them in Schenker and Budday.

I looked at his search for tuning, and I thought about subject too.

Does that make me a CIA agent?

Mark Stahlman
No -- that's makes you one of the "outliers" that the CIA pays LaRouche to find (yes, in places like Sweden). <g>

Btw, the whole VENICE story was actually the work of Webster Tarpley and it was then incorporated into the script for EYES WIDE SHUT by Stanley Kubrick, who was a subscriber to many LaRouche publications -- as reflected by the "password" to the orgy . . . !!

And, just for the record, my *original* research into the long history of LSD began when I was part of the team that produced DOPE, INC (in 1978) . . . !!

Dope, Inc.: Britain's Opium War Against The U.S. Paperback – 1978
by Konstandinos Kalimtgis (Author), U.S. Labor Party Investigating Team (Author), & 1 more

[He's not personally named among authors, but could be part of "U.S. Labor Party Investigating Team" - especially since he actually says he was part of the team.]

Hans-Georg Lundahl
[must have posted before reading
above comment.]
"thus the antipathy to the Queen"

He gives a few very detailed accusations. I don't know if they are true, but excepting the drug cartel story which is uncheckable, there is a thing or two that would need explanation if the larouche version is not or were not true.

I am not very fond of Sweden's present monarchs either. HMtQ promotes a "charity" which has given access to abortion.

"No -- that's makes you one of the "outliers" that the CIA pays LaRouche to find (yes, in places like Sweden). <g>"

OK, and what difference does that make?

If I had been very useful to CIA, would I not rather have been better rewarded by them?

Ah, you are connected to that little research as well, doesn't that make you one of the outliers?

I might, btw, be more bothered of being an outlier, if heretics were not by definition outliers to Catholicism and Catholicism could therefore also be described as on certain points "outlier" of this or that or sundry heresy.

[Obviously if outlier is a terminus technicus, the guy has not fully explained it, and I am answering only according to the contextual meaning he gives it.]

Mark Stahlman
AGENTS -- on the payroll. ASSETS -- "witting" collaborators but unpaid.

Yes, as our conversation should have alerted you, I am definitely one of the OUTLIERS (who is also a Catholic) . . . <g>

Hans-Georg Lundahl
One can be an asset to very many different things one does not intend to be an asset to.

I think I am an asset to bad causes mainly as long as I am unread and unpublished (mostly) on paper, and would cease to be such a thing when my positions became more publically know.

Btw, CIA is neither in itself a bad or a good cause. It has both kinds of causes.

I do not much trust its direct members, having heard those nasty rumours there was Satanism there (or was that the FBI)?

Mark Stahlman
Actually there is a lot of OPUS DEI (and Mormons) in both of them . . . <g>

Since the number of "identified" OUTLIERS is pretty small, I suspect that the CIA has a "list" (which the LaRouche group helps to compile) and that both of our names are on it . . . !!

[Now I note a certain avoidance of subject.]

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Wasn't Opus Dei what certain Spaniards called "Catholic Calvinism"?

I am not quite glad with what the 1960's government in Spain (with two OD members) introduced as changes.

And the OD members I have met (at least two Swedes and a third Englishman in Denmark) tend to consider me as very much too dowdy for their taste in investments. The Englishman considered I had too short trousers and this made me a liability in apologetics at a personal basis.

Sad to say SSPX has some of that too.

And there my loyalties have been with some on-off for more than half my life.

Now, I think for instance CIA has too strong ties to NASA to really relish my Geocentrism.

And while CIA might like people to be anti-abortion in a general way, they might less like the fact I consider teens should regain the right to marry (and this is not a LaRouche position) and therefore:

  • more young employees,
  • more different employers/self-employed and less need of education before becoming one
  • girls seduced should be able to sue the perpetrator and get a marriage or an allowance for child VERY much more easily than now that they can be pushed to abortion.

Mark Stahlman
Indeed, SSPX probably also has a "list" . . . <g>

Not sure about the "Catholic Calvinist" comment but Belloc *did* link Calvin to the Cathars (as per the PURITANS) and OD seems to have its own significant problems with "perfection" . . .

The CIA (or MI6 etc) doesn't care AT ALL about whatever particular opinion people take -- their interest, as regards this conversation, is *only* in people who stand out when "heterodox" topics are being discussed . . . !!

Hans-Georg Lundahl
John Médaille (if Mark Stahlman will excuse me), you said you were a surveyor, right?

What exact angle is the least you are measuring and using for trigonometry (btw, what use are tables of sunrise and sunset to surveyors, just curious)? Is it like 5°, or 1° or an arc minute or an arc second, or what is it?

The principles are of course you need for distance, of the six measures of a rather oblong triangle, three, whereof at least one distance. Even if it be the shortest one. So, usually, one short distance and two angles directly (i e close to right angle, but with slight inclination toward middle) to measure a considerably longer distance.

Mark Stahlman
Yes, by all means, please get back to your DEBATES (as opposed to your "instruction") . . . <g>

Hans-Georg Lundahl
I have had my instruction already.

Without the guys who have wanted to give me such.

I am pretty often tired, and studying a subject that is new is pretty awkward. Perhaps impossible.

Fortunately, I instructed myself so well before this turn in my fortunes, that now I can debate from instructions already enjoyed.

Any man who lays claim to give me "instruction" is delaying a life already too long delayed, infantilising a man already having grey hairs in the beard, in other words a slave hunter.

John Médaille, when you befriended this man, did you know his outlook?

Are you in agreement with it?

Mark Stahlman, did you know I laid down da Vinci code after reaching the chapter where Teabing gets blasphemous? But moreover, before that I had more than once laughed at "Princess" for being so open to "instruction" whenever offered during a trying adventure by a guy like the hero or by a guy like Teabing.

Such gullibility is beyond me. I did not show it to Lyndon LaRouche back then and am not showing it to you now either.

Mark Stahlman
That's what it's like to live in a world of HALLUCINATIONS (*caused* by the ELECTRIC media environment) -- which, alas, differs sharply from the one inhabited by Nicholas of Cusa (which is now being *retrieved* by DIGITAL technology) . . . !!

Nicholas of Cusa on Learned Ignorance: A Translation and an Appraisal of De Docta Ignorantia Paperback – June, 1985 by Jasper Hopkins (Author)

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Sorry, but unlike Lyndon I am not really an enthusiast of Cusanus.

And your p o v on "electric media" and hallucinations, whatever was that of Eric McLuhan, is pretty worthless, since hysteric.

Mark Stahlman
" Violence, whether spiritual or physical, is a quest for identity" and DEBATE is your version of "violence" (which is why I refuse to participate) . . . <g>

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Indeed not. What you are trying to do instead of debating is violence.

As to violence, I have tried to debate INSTEAD of getting to situations where it may be appropriate.

By the way, your quote makes you once more suspect of being some kind of shrink.

[Which is where I unfriended him and blocked or tried to block him.]

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