BE, DP and MH are ladies, HGL is myself, abbreviated since abbreviating the others.
- 2 mars, 20:25
- Read revelation. There is no Gentile gate. There are only gates for the 12 tribes of Israel. To enter the kingdom you must be grafted into Israel through Christ.
- I think this was settled in Acts 15.
Also, the Church is the true Israel, the Synagogue is the false one.
- Yes the church is the spiritual Israel but there is a physical Israel too all 12 tribes not just the Jews
- Well, thing is, many of them are already in the Church.
- HGL no there not. Which church are you suggesting they are in
- The Catholic Church.
Palestinians come from Samaria as well as from Judea.
[Marked as hilarious by BE]
(OK, some are in Greek Orthodox Church too, not quite correct, but still)
- HGL certainly NOT the RC church. Have you read their doctrine and history and what the bible say is the future of the Pope that man of sin
- I am a Roman Catholic and probably know their doctrine and history better than you.
I'd like you to show where in the B I B L E it is supposed to say precisely a P O P E is the man if sin.
(Or, try to)
- HGL sorry to offend but you might remember this conversation when it just might matter. The Pope will shift to Jerusalem. He will do mighty miracles. He will sit in the Holy of Holies after the Jews rebuild the temple. He will preside over the world Churches . Gods true church will be persecuted Rev 17 and 18
- If St Peter's is the Holy of Holies, it might be an Antipope has already sat himself there.
BE, I fail to see what is hilarious with the comment The Catholic Church.
Palestinians come from Samaria as well as from Judea.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Samaria the tribe of Ephraim?
(Note, Palestinians come from Galilea too, but that is more like displaced tribe of Judah then like tribes originally from there).
- HGL who is being hilarious
- DP, not sure if you saw the smiley at the comment, it was the smiley of the type "hilarious", or "cracks me up". If you click it, you can find who thought so. It was BE - and I am well aware she found me hilarious.
That is not the question who, just why.
- HGL Ephraim is a Son of Joseph Great Britain , Australia New Zealand
- DP, if you check the book of Joshua and later Kings, Ephraim is Samaria.
There may be another Biblical character for English speakers and it could be a less pleasant one.
Here is an Israelite:
Not sure if Nablus is Samaria or Galilea, it is somewhere North anyway.
- HGL Not saint peters that’s in Rome The temple the Jews will rebuild. In Jerusalem. Now the Palestinians are not Israel they are Gentiles.
HGL you are defiantly wrong. I know who and where the 12 tribes of Israel are. It is common knowledge to any who understands history of the bible
- "Not saint peters that’s in Rome"
Still the temple of God.
"The temple the Jews will rebuild."
Doesn't say in the verse.
"Now the Palestinians are not Israel they are Gentiles."
False. They are Israelites uniting in the Apostolic Church when the second CHurch was Samaria, see Acts 8, fulfilling Isaiah 11. P L U S their descendants, some still Christian and some alas Muslim, to this day. That population is called Palestinians.
You do not understand or even know history of the CHurch.
- The Catholic Church does not replace Israel. The Catholic Church doesn't even adhere to the Torah. Revelation 18 tells us how the Catholic Church along with all the other false denominations (including Protestants) will be deconstructed. Ultimately, Yeshua will return to enforce and established the Torah which the mainstream church's have made void. Isaiah 66, Zechariah 14, Micah 4, rev 17,18
It's all happened before and the same things happening nape.
- The 1st century church fathers adhered to the Torah but the RCC strayed. Come out of her.
- "The Catholic Church does not replace Israel."
Continues it, see Acts 1 (where twelveness of apostles is essential) and 2 where Catholic Church unites dispered Jews.
"The Catholic Church doesn't even adhere to the Torah."
You mean it does not impose the Cashrut. Decided in Acts 15. You mean the Lord's Day was changed because New Creation beginning on Resurrection Sunday trumps Old Creation, ending on first Sabbath.
But if it comes to truths rather than ritual, yes, the Catholic Church definitely does adhere to the Torah, at least if you except some Modernist with doubtful qualifications on being Catholic, who doubt there was an Adam created directly from dust.
"Revelation 18 tells us how the Catholic Church along with all the other false denominations (including Protestants) will be deconstructed."
Not really, since the chapter contains no two words saying "Catholic Church".
"The 1st century church fathers adhered to the Torah but the RCC strayed. Come out of her."
Your words contradict Matthew 28:20. E V E R Y day. Not just for one century, but for all centuries up to Doomsday.
- HGL you believe what you want but I do understand a lot more than you give me credit for. I do know the history of Gods true church and of the RC church and of the 12 tribes of Israel or 13 tribes because Joseph’s sons are joint heirs Great Britain and USA. Truth cannot be changed despite what some WANT to believe. Rev 2 and 3 show the eras of Gods Church. We are now going into the Laodicean era. Note Ephesus is mentioned as a city on the mail route not as a tribe or nation.
- "I do know the history of Gods true church"
Well, what happened after the 1st C Church Fathers adhered to the Torah, as BE claimed?
"and of the RC church"
Just checking who was on your view the first Pope of it?
I have posed that question to non-Catholics on quora, apart from Constantine who was not a Pope, I have had no answer.
"and of the 12 tribes of Israel or 13 tribes because Joseph’s sons are joint heirs Great Britain and USA"
What language is spoken the four corners of the Earth?
If you take only Old World, you would have NW Europe, Cape of Good Hope, Singapore / New Guinea / Australia, Sakhalin and Japan. That would make Americas an Island world.
If you consider Atlantic as an inner sea, and Americas as included, the four corners would be Alaska, Cape Horn, Singapore / New Guinea / Australia, Sakhalin and Japan.
Which of these four corners do you not find English spoken in? Of course, Jewish presence would also be there.
What Biblical character is said to come from the four corners of the Earth?
Now, one more, where do you get this idea from, that the sons of Joseph are English?
"Truth cannot be changed despite what some WANT to believe."
Truth cannot, no. THat is why I stick to a Church with unchanging doctrine.
"Rev 2 and 3 show the eras of Gods Church."
That idea is disputable, it would seem to apply immediately to seven Churches of the area.
And typologically to diverse Churches and diverse souls all over the time - not to specific eras.
"Note Ephesus is mentioned as a city on the mail route not as a tribe or nation"
Of course. So?
- HGL saint Peters is not the temple of God. Even the pope will move to the temple the Jews will rebuild because he knows it is the temple of God and he will sit in the Holy of Holies. It is written and it will be . Gods word and prophesies are sure
My words contradict matthew 28:20?
Where in scripture is authority given to men to change Yahovah's law? Did it Yeshua tell us to do all that is taught from Moses seat?
You are free to walk as you will, but I will not be caught making the Torah of YHVH void. Which is very thing the Pharisees were rebuked and condemned for.
True Israel exists outside the Roman Catholic Church, as true Israel does not submit to foreign Gods.
You say you are Jews but you are not.
- DP "Gods word and prophesies are sure"
And water is wet. Yes.
Water is wet doesn't answer which day it was raining, and your word's don't answer where in the Bible you find your interpretation buttressed.
"saint Peters is not the temple of God."
It is, or to recently was.
"Even the pope"
Sorry, I can't see Bergoglio as Pope, if that is who you mean.
"will move to the temple"
Bergoglio already is in what was recently a temple of God, perhaps still is (would perhaps need reconsecration if a true Pope comes back there).
"the Jews will rebuild"
Not sure they can. The place where the Mosque is, is tectonically unstable, according to some.
"because he knows it is the temple of God and he will sit in the Holy of Holies."
If Bergoglio thinks so, he may do that too. But not sure it can be the temple of God, since Aaronitic priesthood was replaced by Melchisedecian one.
"It is written and it will be ."
The prophecies are, your interpretation of them needs support you are not giving.
BE "My words contradict matthew 28:20?"
They do unless you show a historically continuous Church from the day of Christ to the present.
"Where in scripture is authority given to men to change Yahovah's law? Did it Yeshua tell us to do all that is taught from Moses seat?"
He said so before His death, while the Old Covenant was still valid and had a content. We do not say it is no longer valid, we say it was voided of content.
Now, the words still apply, but now to those who sit on and teach from St Peter's seat, should they behave like Pharisees.
"You are free to walk as you will, but I will not be caught making the Torah of YHVH void. Which is very thing the Pharisees were rebuked and condemned for."
Voiding of Old Covenant is not the same as voiding of Law. Some parts of the law were specific to Old Covenant, others are not voided.
"True Israel exists outside the Roman Catholic Church, as true Israel does not submit to foreign Gods."
Where was "true Israel" in AD 800?
(For pax, it is a bit early)
- HGL the messianic Jewish people who have faith in Yeshua and obey the Torah of YHVH. Revelation 14:12
This is the church.
- The twelve tribes of Israel are returning to Israel from many nations. The rabbis in Israel have many tests to authenticate that.
The Palestinians are Arabs, although they have other bloodlines too (Egypt, Syria, Phoenicia, Turkey, etc.) Arabs and Jews share some genes; they are cousins. Christian Arabs are not lost tribes of Israel.
Western nations have no genes, historical/religious roots or language roots tracing back to any of the tribes of Israel. When Christianity came to pagan Europe, the Jewish roots of the Christian faith came too - in the Bible. British Israelism is fake history.
- BE "the messianic Jewish people who have faith in Yeshua and obey the Torah of YHVH."
Palestinians, since 2000 years.
MH "The Palestinians are Arabs"
No, in Muslim thought, excepting a few Muslim nobles among Palestinians, the Arabic speaking peoples of Near East outside Arabian Peninsula are not "Arab", but "Mustariba" - it means they are "Arabised" and spoke something else before.
Palestinians celebrate Liturgy in Aramaic, which was the language of Jesus.
Do you start to comprehend what part of history you need to look on?
MH "When Christianity came to pagan Europe, the Jewish roots of the Christian faith came too - in the Bible."
In Catholic Church and its Bible.
- Jesus is the Head of His body now. Only Jesus.
- HGL if your last comment is true, then why did the Catholic Church segregate the Gentile believers from the Jewish believers in Christ by keeping them from observing the Shabbat together or the feasts? Why did the Catholic Church think it acceptable to change the laws and times as the prophecy of daniel for-tells? It's lawlessness.
Ezekiel tells us that Israel will he rejoined to Judah and we will establish the law of the Most High which is His Torah, kept with faith in Yeshua.
I pray for the scales to be removed from you eyes, my friend. That you may seen clearly all things written and come to truly understand the God you serve.
- BE, Where do you have ANY Jewish believers all through the ages who did so?
For instance AD 800?
"Ezekiel tells us that Israel will he rejoined to Judah and we will establish the law of the Most High which is His Torah, kept with faith in Yeshua."
Happened in Acts 8 and the Christian Palestinians are still there.
- HGL this hasn't happened yet. Judah is only one of 12 tribes.
- Yes, but in Acts 8 Judah (Jerusalem) reunited with the main tribe of Israel, Ephraim.
It happened 2000 years ago.
Much of rest of tribes, see Mesopotamian Christendom.
- some more.