Up Against Evangelical Hecklers

I don't have an extensive blocklist. Nancy Smith-Williams and Art Kester just made it to it.

They were demanding me alone to answer both of them at the same time, in real time. A bit like the disciples of Spurgeon tend to do when "Evangelising".

But up to when they started becoming tedious, they gave some interesting debate. Nine people are now (after c. 8 years on FB here this profile) on my blocklist, it is not extensive. Patricia A Lovric whose question started it is not on it.

Patricia A Lovric

13 Janvier, 14:47

Will a Christian who dies while committing a sin go to heaven?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

When someone becomes a new creature, he ceases to be a sinner.

If you die while making yourself a sinner again, by committing a mortal sin, you go to Hell. Requirements? Grave matter against the commandments, full consent, full knowledge of what you are doing.

Note, thinking that "suicide can't be a grave matter" is not lack of full knowledge you are committing suicide, if suicide is the sin you are committing.

Nancy Smith-Williams

Nope.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Sorry, you seem to lack some catechetic knowledge.

Here:

EWTN : CATECHISM OF SAINT PIUS X
https://www.ewtn.com/library/CATECHSM/PIUSXCAT.HTM

Nancy Smith-Williams

I lack nothing. My knowledge comes from knowing Jesus and God's word. Your catechism is worthless.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

If you consider one of the best catechisms as worthless, you don't know God's word.

Art Kester

Nancy Smith-Williams Awesome!! I love your posts

Art Kester

Hans-Georg Lundahl I know God’s word. What can we talk about ???!!

Nancy Smith-Williams

Art Kester...Thank you! Blessings.

Art Kester I want him to ask me something. I know the Bible

Art Kester

Hmmm...I’m sure I could guess your answer but is a Christian once saved always saved ??

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Art Kester this, which Nancy said nope to:

When someone becomes a new creature, he ceases to be a sinner.

If you die while making yourself a sinner again, by committing a mortal sin, you go to Hell. Requirements? Grave matter against the commandments, full consent, full knowledge of what you are doing.

Note, thinking that "suicide can't be a grave matter" is not lack of full knowledge you are committing suicide, if suicide is the sin you are committing.

If you want a question too, well, if God chastises here and now, and there is no Purgatory, when does God chastise someone who dies sinning (supposing he is not damned).

Art Kester

Hans-Georg Lundahl wow that’s a lot of bloviating! So was that a yes or a no to once saved always saved ??

[If he meant OSAS on individual level, I think I just did say no. Some do lose their salvation, but the Church does not.]

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Art Kester you seem to want easy answers and to avoid difficult questions.

Nancy Smith-Williams

As a Christian I am not a sinner in God's view.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Nancy Smith-Williams If you are a living Christian you are not only not a sinner in God's view, but you are not a sinner. This is a condition which ceases if you commit a mortal sin.

Art Kester

Hans-Georg Lundahl what I want is clear concise answers. But apparently you can’t manage that.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

You apparently want concise answers on set questions and avoid other questions. I don't want to manage that.

Nancy Smith-Williams

Right...I am no longer a sinner but a saint.

Whenever I sin that doesn't change.

Art Kester

Hans-Georg Lundahl oooh there must be a list of mortal sins! Where is the list? I may want to laminate it and stick it on my fridge

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Nancy Smith-Williams

".I am no longer a sinner but a saint."

If you have committed no mortal sin after a valid baptism or confession.

"Whenever I sin that doesn't change."

It does.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Art Kester it is called the decalogue.

Art Kester

Nancy Smith-Williams Exactly....

Hans-Georg Lundahl

I seem to be around two heretics playing at "we are the Church" and the "two or three witnesses" before denouncing sn to it.

Art Kester

Hans-Georg Lundahl dude you’re so lost but it’s ok I guess we will see each other in heaven and God may explain to you what He really cares about and that’s unconditional love not the Decalogue!!

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Salvation is un-pre-condistional, not un-subsequent-conditional.

Nancy Smith-Williams

Nothing changes. My relationship with God may lose some intimacy, but as His daughter, I know that when I confess to Him my failure, He teminds me lovingly about the fact that all my sins have been wiped away.

Nancy Smith-Williams

And He restores me immediately.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Except when he doesn't.

Nancy Smith-Williams

Hans-Georg Lundahl...I am no heretic and you starting the animosity by making such a charge proves you are not on the side if right. You do not know what the Church is.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

I do, I am a Catholic.

Nancy Smith-Williams

God always restores His children when they run to Him.

Nancy Smith-Williams

Are you born again?

Art Kester

Nancy Smith-Williams I love these ppl who admit their behavior wasn’t good enough to GET saved. But by some magic AFTER they are saved their behavior can be good enough to maintain salvation OR it could be bad enough to forfeit salvation! It it were all true God would have to be schizophrenic

(Hans-Georg Lundahl is ...

...answering two questions at once, second writting before posting first answer)

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Yes, when ... if it is really to Him they run.

Yes, I am born again by Baptism.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Art Kester God is not schizophrenic you are simplistic.

Nancy Smith-Williams

Baptism saves no one. Try again.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Baptism saves no one? Oh, John chapter 3.

Art Kester

Hans-Georg Lundahl Shocker!! Hey did Peter Really start the only legitimate church?!!

Nancy Smith-Williams

Try reading the whole NT.

John 3 makes no mention of baptism.

Try again.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

No, Christ started it on Peter.

I'd like to know what Nancy misconstrues as against salvation by baptism.

John 3 mentions "born again by water and spirit", meaning baptism in water is what is meant.

Nancy Smith-Williams

Nope.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Sorry, not my fault if Nancy can't read (unless it's medical journals)

You see,

before I blocked her, I saw her profile, she is a nurse or former nurse.

Did you think

I was only debating on this front? Check out Nancy's answer to OP question and what I wrote there:

Nancy Smith-Williams

Once you are adopted, the Father owns you. He's not going to give you up, but like the perfect Father He is, He will chastize you.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

When if you are just dying?

In Purgatory?

Nancy Smith-Williams

No such thing as Purgatory.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

If there isn't, where is God spanking someone who needs spanking but not giving up when he dies?

Nancy Smith-Williams

God chastises His children in the here and now.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

In that case, what does he do when someone dies sinning and escapes chastisement in the "here and now", presuming that means this side of the grave?

Nancy Smith-Williams

God receives His own when they die. You cannot gain salvation by good behaviour and likewise you cannot lose salvation by bad behaviour.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

You can gain Salvation by Christ's good behaviour, and also by your own in receving it. You can also make yourself again unworthy of it.

You just pretended when someone "saved" sins, God chastises him, so, when, if it is someone who dies sinning.

Perhaps

the notification from Nancy Smith-Williams was her a bit overdue answer on this one (while I had been dragging around the other one, see above), if so I missed it by blocking her.

Either way, there are guys, both Evangelical and Atheist who will use this two against one tactic on the internet, like they seem to enjoy doing it also orally.