Ending with Ivan Shiek and Timothy Bradley

With Ivan Shiek on Continuity of Church and Accusations against the Catholic one (Ten Commandments and Accusation ag. Papacy) · With Ivan Shiek and Glenda Badger on Continuity of the Church · Continuing with Ivan Shiek · Ending with Ivan Shiek and Timothy Bradley

Ivan Shiek

Hans-Georg Lundahl, there is an authority greater than any church or pope. It is by that authority that I am able to say what I say.

Jesus Christ was around Augustus Caesar's time, which is also when Julius was a centurion. Apart from those worldly men I know nobody else.

Hans-Georg Lundahl, I would like to hear your explanation of God being a spirit but not "unphysical".

This is going where spirits can interact with the physical world but the physical world cannot interact with spirits? What do you believe causes that and which law of nature or law of God is that following?

Hans-Georg Lundahl,

"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed." Luke 2:1 KJV

The only empire at the time was the Roman Empire. He was emperor at the time of Jesus Christ's birth according to Luke and Simeon (Luke 2:25).

"But when Paul had appealed to be reserved unto the hearing of Augustus, I commanded him to be kept till I might send him to Caesar." Acts 25:21 KJV

"And when it was determined that we should sail into Italy, they delivered Paul and certain other prisoners unto one named Julius, a centurion of Augustus' band." Acts 27:1 KJV

Okay, Julius was not in the time of Jesus Christ like I thought, he was after. But Augustus Caesar was emperor at Jesus's birth and resurrection, all the way to Paul's time.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

"there is an authority greater than any church or pope. It is by that authority that I am able to say what I say."

OK, it is by that authority the Church is able to say what it says, and it is by the Church we access that authority as to our souls.

God is a spirit, but since 2000 years ALSO a human soul and a human body.

So, you still have a gap between I C. AD and, perhaps Reformation - that is about 14 centuries?

"But Augustus Caesar was emperor at Jesus's birth and resurrection, all the way to Paul's time."

Tiberius was Caesar in the time of Christ's Resurrection, and Nero got Peter and Paul martyred in 64 AD.

Ivan Shiek

Hans-Georg Lundahl,
"'But Augustus Caesar was emperor at Jesus's birth and resurrection, all the way to Paul's time.'

Tiberius was Caesar in the time of Christ's Resurrection, and Nero got Peter and Paul martyred in 64 AD."

Not according to scriptures, in Acts it says Paul wanted to have a hearing by Augustus Caesar.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

You refer to Acts 25:21.

Here is Haydock on it:

"Ver. 21. Augustus Nero, who was then the Roman emperor."

http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id140.html

Note, the verse does nowhere say "Caesar Augustus" or even "Augustus Caesar", but it uses "Augustus" and "Caesar" as synonyms. Nero is not the same person as Caesar Augustus in "And it came to pass, that in those days there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that the whole world should be enrolled." (Luke 2:1).

So, your being led by the spirit in reading Bible, the results make me wonder "which spirit".

Ivan Shiek

Hans-Georg Lundahl, "Caesar" was the first emperor's first name? The Bible never went by last names. It was always a name with a title or title and a name. Only time they mention a family is when they say a "house": House of David.

Do not forget, the New Testament may have been written in Greek but it was written by Jewish Apostles or of them. Even Apostle Paul claimed he was a Jew by heritage.

Hans-Georg Lundahl,
"So, your being led by the spirit in reading Bible, the results make me wonder 'which spirit'."

Careful, you know blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin. The way the Pharisees blasphemed the Spirit was by saying Jesus Christ had an "evil spirit". Don't make the same mistake.

Timothy Bradek

"As it is written, eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that (L)ove Him. But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned (1Cor.2)."

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Ivan Shiek, I was wondering whether your bad history and bad exegesis was among the things you got from whatever or whoever is your spirit.

Timothy Bradek, fair enough for the grace content of the Faith, but not fair enough for the fact that those who have the Faith are an outwardly visible group at each moment between Pentecost and the Second Coming (and the ten days before Pentecost as well).

// "Caesar" was the first emperor's first name? //

Caesar was the L A S T name of Julius Caesar (the one in Asterix), the S E C O N D L A S T name of "Caesar Augustus" after his adoption by former (Gaius Julius Caesar adopted Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus, whom the Senate gave the title "Augustus").

// The Bible never went by last names. //

Except when dealing with Romans. Pilate is also a last name.

// It was always a name with a title or title and a name. //

Augustus was a title. Caesar was a name becoming a title.

Ivan Shiek

Hans-Georg Lundahl,

I have no degree in any subject, I am not ordained by any man, I have no power of politics, and I am not of noble birth.

"Just look at yourselves, brothers — look at those whom God has called! Not many of you are wise by the world’s standards, not many wield power or boast noble birth. But God chose what the world considers nonsense in order to shame the wise; God chose what the world considers weak in order to shame the strong;" 1 Corinthians 1:26-27

Hans-Georg Lundahl,
You will know them by their fruit. If the fruit of my spirit bares bad fruit, then I am of the Evil One. But have I been trying to lead you away from God, or closer to Him? No, I have been trying to open your eyes to the truth, not for my benefit or pleasure, but for yours. So that you may claim God in Heaven as your true Father with a sincere heart. And call no man on earth as your "father".

Timothy Bradek

Hans-Georg Lundahl Fair enough for the grace content? This is not re: grace, but the difference between the "natural man" and being born from above, or the spiritual man, who .. is born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jesus Christ says that a man must be born again to see or enter the Kingdom of God (see Jn.3:5-7).

[A diagram I may have misinterpreted : in this life we may still be swinging between old and new man, of which the former necessarily sins - though not in every act - and the latter is not in and of itself sinning]

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Timothy Bradek, you know [referring to diagram], for one thing "cannot sin" is not a state on earth, but in purgatory and heaven, and "can ONLY sin" (not cannot avoid sin, but cannot make acts other than sins) is a state also not on earth but in hell.

For another, supposing I am not born again, and therefore cannot (on your view) even see the Kingdom of Heaven even on Earth, you would presumably be born again and be able to tell me where it was in Vth and VIIth C.

Btw, what Christ told Nicodemus was he had to get baptised to get to Heaven, not that he had to become only mystically part of the elect in order to see where Heaven's ambassadors on Earth were.

Ivan Shiek "Not many of you are wise by the world’s standards, not many wield power or boast noble birth."

Not many of you = > still some.

So, you can't tell me who in Vth or VIIth C. was the Church, maybe one of those in your Church who does have some secular knowledge of history can tell you.

I mean, by now you have had time to ask.

Ivan Shiek "But have I been trying to lead you away from God, or closer to Him?"

Away from His Church and therefore, even if you don't get it, in reality away from Him.

Timothy Bradek

What in Tar-Nation are you babbling about, and what is that hellinski stuff. Here's what God says about your sin: "Wherefore, as by one man (Adam) sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: and come short of the glory of God (Rom.3&5)." Even King David, under inspiration cries out, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me (Ps.51:5)."

Ivan Shiek

Timothy Bradek, I have been contending the faith with Hans-Georg Lundahl for days, he is too stubborn and set in the way he was taught. The only way for him to see the truth is for him to be born again and seek God's Kingdom.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Timothy Bradek All have sinned is NOT equal to "all have done nothing excet sin" as you would have it to.

Ivan Shiek, I am born again by baptism.

The stubborness is on your side, you are SO demanding on everyone accepting what you know of history of 1517 - 21, but when it comes to Vth and VIIth Centuries (look them up on wiki!) you don't need to know anything, since "not many among you are learned".

No, it is n ot for the faith you have contended, whether you know it or not, but for a parody of it, as proven by Matthew 28.

Ivan Shiek

Hans-Georg Lundahl, God bless you and may He correct us both to His truth, amen.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Thank you for a good debate.