His Holiness Suppressing a Defense, Not an Attack, in a Quarrel Under His OP

OP

David Bawden / Pope Michael

October 19 at 4:05 PM ·

No one truly wants to submit fully to authority. Instead we want to hold something back and be ready to hit the exits, when we hear an unpleasant truth.

I

HGL

"submit fully to authority"

I sense a whiff of Spurgeonite spirituality.

A monk is called to submit fully to his superiors. A Jesuit is called for submit fully to the Pope and his superiors. A Catholic is called to submit SUFFICIENTLY to the Pope.

II

NS

uhhh no offense but isn’t “i’ll hold my own conclave and elect myself Pope because I don’t care for what’s going on in the actual Church these days” the most blatant kind of comforting lie? you post lots of interesting stuff and I admire your faith but obviously you’re not really the Pope and if you’re gonna start getting nasty and insulting about those who DO submit to the authority of the actual Church and the actual Pope, then it’s not gonna stay civil.

Missing

some. Perhaps same technical reason as below ...

NS

haha maybe, but not in your case, no. in your case, not liking something and not considering it Catholic are EXACTLY the same thing.

as far as you know 😂😂😂😂

HGL

No, I happen to find it awkward having Pope Michael for Pope.

I could even find it confortable having "PF" for Pope, but I could even so not consider "PF" as a Catholic.

Btw, I might be exaggerating how comfortable "PF" would be if I accepted him ...

NS

it’s almost like a publicity stunt that took on a life of its own. he play acted a papal conclave to draw attention to a cause in the Church and now he has to stick with it because he’s attracted the belief and loyalty of crazy people.

Hans, he’s not the Pope. you’re just gonna have to deal with that. face reality.

i don’t think it matters what YOU consider Catholic. Francis is the current Pope of the Catholic Church 😊

HGL

Creation vs. Evolution : "Pope Francis" is Not a Creationist
https://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2018/09/pope-francis-is-not-creationist.html

Where I link to:

35 – God is not a magician, capable of making everything
https://en-denzingerbergoglio.com/we-risk-imagining-that-god-was-a-magician-complete-with-an-all-powerful-magic-wand/

NS

yep. educated people these days aren’t creationists. and they’re still catholic. you’re gonna have to deal with that, too.

HGL

oh, dear ... you mean "educated" as "brain washed"?

And not being Creationist actually IS opposed to being Catholic, as per Trent.

NS

no i mean educated. intelligent. went to school.

it’s not too late for YOU to go to school!

HGL

OK, I spent 7 years at university doing 5 years and a week worth of exams with mostly excellent results.

Whether I am intelligent is a matter for some debate, but I can hardly be considered as not having gone to school.

NS

uh huh. I myself am not a Creationist, and I’m still a Catholic. And there’s nothing you can do about it. Just like how Francis is the Pope and David Bawden is not.

HGL

"I myself am not a Creationist,"

I believe you.

"and I’m still a Catholic."

Luther and Calvin said so too. I don't believe you.

The fact you are allowed to approach the altar says there is sth wrong with your bishop.

NS

yea i’ve noticed that. Bawden’s page is absolutely LOADED with angry guys who insist they have doctorates in theology, and are happy to tap out angry misspelled insults if you don’t abandon the real Catholic Church on their say so.

You’ll forgive me if I doubt the credentials of your school. We’ve already seen that your definition of “pope” is severely lacking so I can only imagine what you mean by “school.”

I know but you think some guy in Oklahoma is the real Pope cuz his mom said so, so no one cares what you believe about who and what is Catholic.

HGL

"doctorates in theology"

I never said I had any doctorate. While I got five years worth of studies, it's undergraduate ones.

Also, at Lund, I avoided theology.

"and are happy to tap out angry misspelled insults"

Did I misspell anything! The horror! I actually spent those years doing LETTERS. If I had a bachelor, it would be a bachelor of arts. And I misspelled sth? That's against my honour as a student?

Or you just considered a British spelling as a misspelling?

About as competent as considering my "insults" whether really such or not "angry" - i e not very competent.

"no one cares what you believe about who and what is Catholic"

I'm waiting for a Classic comment by Terence Hill ...

my name is nobody theme song
r1l1r2l2r3l3 | 25.IV.2009
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgrbUpyY_LY

(In case your mastery of English is less than perfect, "nobody" and "no one" are synonyms)

NS

No one believes you and even if they did, no one would care. You could be a Doctor of the Church, you’ll still be judged by the merits of what you say and what you say is pretty dumb.

HGL

Like standing with Trent?

Session four?

NS

aw man. “the horror!” who told you that you were funny? just fuckin painful.

HGL

I can relate to you thinking so, when you lack a valid answer about Trent Session Four.

NS

the real Catholic Church managed to stand with Trent too. Pope Francis, and I, stand with Trent. you’re not special.

HGL

(Or should it be "your thinking so"?)

NS

does it really burn your ass that I said your spelling is shitty?

or was that another attempt at a joke on your part?

HGL

"Pope Francis, and I, stand with Trent. you’re not special."

2014 - "we risk seeing God as a magician with an all powerful wand"
2018 - "educated people are not creationist"

1540's "according to the sense which the Church has held and holds" - "not except according to common sense of all Church fathers" [quoting from memory, OK]

"does it really burn your ass that I said your spelling is shitty?"

The difference between "you thinking" and "your thinking" is of syntax, not spelling. I don't own any jackass. Did you mean arse?

Yeah, it kind of does, since letters is what I spent doing at university!

Now, pause over, I hope, and what do you have to say about Trent?

I didn't claim to be special. I claim YOU are VERY special if you both claim to stand with Trent and to not be a Creationist. About as special as a giant with two heads. Or some joke by John Cleese.

NS

I know, I heard you the first time, but we’ve already established you have your own secret special definitions for “pope,” “school,” and “creationism,” so I don’t expect you to understand much of anything, let alone how an educated person could be a Catholic.

Hans knows what he’s talking about guys, he went to a “school.”

HGL

Lund University is hardly a "special definition" for school.

I have the same definition of Creationism as anyone else - like God created the world thousands, but not millions or even tens of thousand years ago, dinosaur fossils are from times of Biblical history, like Flood or similar.

NS

It’s also where he honed his sense of humor and learned to tell “jokes.”

hahahahaha no bro that’s not the definition of Creationism everyone else has. 😂😂😂😂

[Note:

that is not exactly what he said a little earlier, right?]

HGL

No, homelessness has honed my sense of humour more.

NS

aw man. how embarrassing for you.

HGL

ok, what definition of creationism do you have and on your word "everyone else"?

NS

anyway, your definition of the Creation would find a lot of support among evangelicals, but it’s not popular with educated folks.

HGL

And that means Evangelicals are more Catholic than the guys you called "educated folks".

At least those Evangelicals who are Creationist and on that account.

NS

but again, you’re a homeless idiot, so we don’t care what you think is Catholic and what isn’t.

HGL

(btw, "educated folks" sounds a bit like you were not quite too well read, and picked up more phrases from conversations than from books")

OK, being homeless is of course synonymous to being an idiot, that is why Sts Francis and Dominic became homeless voluntarily, right?

NS

were you homeless voluntarily?

HGL

And why Sts Bonaventura and Thomas Aquinas joined their ranks.

NS

yea I didn’t think so.

HGL

Well, as you mention it, it is kind of a two pronged issue.

If I had a "paper editor" for some of my blogged texts, I'd like to kiss homelessness goodbye ...

NS

is it common for you idiots to regularly compare yourselves to the saints and pretend each other are the Pope? do you ever just live your faith, or is it always a fantasy game?

HGL

But while my homelessness is not strictly voluntary, the voluntary one of saints should make a CATHOLIC pause before belittling someone even involuntarily homeless.

NS

yea I could tell you had a lot of unpublished writings. i think it’s gonna take more than an editor to make them publishable.

it doesn’t give me pause. the saints were homeless due to humility and service, because their riches were not of this world. you’re homeless because you’re an arrogant fool.

your own positions are internally inconsistent but instead of being open to dialogue, you just fling adorable insults and make such bad jokes that some actually just feel badly for you. “I don’t own a jackass, you must mean arse!” Ugh. If I were compiling a book about people who aren’t funny, that one line would have its own chapter.

some homelessness is exactly what you need, to grow your humility and shrink your ego. believe it or not, you DON’T know everything, and if you did know everything, you wouldn’t be sleeping on the streets and whining about mean internet people belittling you. you should obtain a residence and stop telling yourself the lie and fantasy that your homelessness is a sign of holiness and puts you on par with the saints. your homelessness isn’t STRICTLY voluntary because you’re not STRICTLY a saint, stop comparing yourself to one in the same conversation that you elect yourself arbiter over who is and isn’t a Catholic.

My answers

seem to have become inaccessible for technical reasons ...

Other OP

David Bawden / Pope Michael

October 20 at 1:21 PM ·

[7] And the peace of God, which surpasseth all understanding, keep your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. [8] For the rest, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever modest, whatsoever just, whatsoever holy, whatsoever lovely, whatsoever of good fame, if there be any virtue, if any praise of discipline, think on these things. (Philippians 4)

I somehow sense

His Holiness is somewhat inapproriately imposing a perfection on this criterium on laymen beyond what is usually required of us. NS, who doesn't submit to him, got his say. I who do, didn't get to post my reply.

Or perhaps it is, he showed some Dunning Kruger about the editing business, just bc he has a deal with Amazon, he thinks he knows how I could get one and thinks he knows how he can offer me a book for free - when in fact I don't have the app required. Being a Pope doesn't necessarily cure one from being an arsehole socially. Nor impart supernatural knowledge about the editing business. But bc he has more money than I, doesn't need to seek a place to put his sleeping bag etc, he thinks he can do the attitude of NS.

And cover it up with a nice excuse.

Supposing he is Pope, I don't think even that obliged me to take that kind of shit from him. While SSPX were arguably wrong to go on accepting the "papacy" of men so long not correcting hideous heterodoxies, they did have a few things to say on obedience NOT being unlimited. If His Holiness can't even believe that, well, too bad, either he has some reading up to do in moral theology, or he is a non-Catholic too. And therefore not His Holiness.

PS, as for the defense I complained of as being suppressed, it was this, that Saints' lives are to Catholics what Supreme Court decisions are to US - they don't just concern "saint wannabes" or saints or people who think they are. They concern everyone./HGL