Ghosts?

DB

Have you had experience with 'ghosts' ie demons?

I

HGL

• 1) No, I haven't.
• 2) No, I don't think ghosts are always demons.

Samuel's own ghost came, not a demon (which the witch of Endor would have been used to and not afraid of).

In a case like the Ghost of Canterville, I'd say it was likely a real ghost asking for real intercession.

II

JS

Demons pray off the weak and deceive them. If Christ is strong in you, demons won't waste their time.

HGL

Exactly - I saw three possible (at least to me) UFOs, and when I took "falling stars" as per Matthew 24 as a cew for praying, I never got bothered by any aliens.

I actually was so out of modern reading, I would not have made the connection with UFOlogy back then, just thought of Matthew 24.

So, I took up the rosary to pray for three souls I thought in danger.

By the way, that was years ago, back in late nineties.

Update next day:

MS

Even if they say they are not demons, how would we know that to be true!

HGL

A demon would not ask intercessions, and St Gregory the Great was successor of St Peter and therefore had discernment of spirits and could decide that.

MS

Any spirit can put up an act. At that things may have been different in the days Scripture was written. Back then asking for an intercession may had an effect, if it has today I am rather skeptical about.

SO'N

considering that the dead KNOW NOTHING, it was impossible for the 'ghost' that the witch of Endor 'brought up' to have truly been Samuel's ghost. The bible does not contradict itself.

MS

Only the spiritually dead know nothing.

SO'N

Ecc 9:5

MS

Does that contradict that what I say?

SO'N

We see spiritually dead people around us all the time. They happen to be breathing, however.

MS

Their body is breathing, that's just mechanics... Ever noticed that this planet is zombieland?

DB

HGL quite disturbing reading what you are saying. So you are convinced by the apparent testimony of demons, who are known for deception and deceit, that their word is true

SO'N

MS oh yes... far too many zombies walking and talking these days. Tis truly scary.

MB

The witch of endor wasn't afraid of the Demon, she was afraid of Saul, who had a decree of death hanging over her head.

HGL

MS "Any spirit can put up an act."

Sure, but any spirit can't make it fool a pope who is a canonised saint.

Both the office he enjoyed (see Matthew 16:19) and the fact miracles happened after he died show Pope Gregory the Great was not mistaken.

SO'N "considering that the dead KNOW NOTHING, it was impossible for the 'ghost' that the witch of Endor 'brought up' to have truly been Samuel's ghost."

Would you mind giving context?

Or, I'll search.

"For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know nothing more, neither have they a reward any more: for the memory of them is forgotten."
[Ecclesiastes 9:5]

Now, here is what bishop Challoner says about this verse, which some Protestants have disfigured:

[5] "Know nothing more": Viz., as to the transactions of this world, in which they have now no part, unless it be revealed to them; neither have they any knowledge or power now of doing any thing to secure their eternal state, (if they have not taken care of it in their lifetime:) nor can they now procure themselves any good, as the living always may do, by the grace of God.

This means, "unless it be revealed to them" takes care of Samuel's ghost being Samuel's.

DB "So you are convinced by the apparent testimony of demons, who are known for deception and deceit, that their word is true"

You like strawmen?

Or does "apparent" mean "apparent to Derek Brown" and are you asking me to trust you more than Pope Gregory the Great?

I came here for debating, not for apostasising from Catholicism!

DB

HGL you may have come here for debating. I did not. And I don't engage with necromancers or people who put the word of necromancers above the bible

HGL

MB "she was afraid of Saul, who had a decree of death hanging over her head."

Actually, I had relied on CSL's reading of that passage.

Second time over very many passages (Biblical or non-Biblical) where I - thanks to you - catch him as being somewhat sloppy for a moment.

DB "I did not."

I thought Kent Hovind was in and of himself fond of debating, so a group dedicated to him would be a debate group?

[DB "And I don't engage with necromancers or people who put the word of necromancers above the bible"

I have however to engage as long as they do with lots of people strawmanning me.

Like you just did with this sentence.]
[was delated after I posted and copied it - but, no, it wasn't, was slow in showing]

MS

The popey system is a human framework. Most of them were either crooks or heavily mislead.

DB

HGL I am not Kent hovind. I don't debate people.

HGL

DB even so, you take a lot of interest in a debate your don't "do"

MS Where did the Church then go on your view?

Matthew 28:20 says "all days".

Speaking of crooks, who delated my comment to Derek Brown which went:

DB "And I don't engage with necromancers or people who put the word of necromancers above the bible"

I have however to engage as long as they do with lots of people strawmanning me.

Like you just did with this sentence.

Sth went wrong

here are two comments which were concerned by the glitch, second explaining it.

DB

HGL I am not Kent hovind. I don't debate people. Nor will I use terms such as 'strawman' outside of context such as you have done

HGL

Apparently previous had not been deleted, but was slow showing.

DB "Nor will I use terms such as 'strawman' outside of context such as you have done"

It is a strawman to ask me why I believe necromancers. I don't.

It is a strawman to pretend I am placing human words "above the Bible" in the sense of not beliving the Bible as God's word.

Sth went wronger

"Cette publication a été supprimée ou ne peut pas être chargée."