A "Biblical" Heliocentric Misciting Holy Scripture

1) Assorted retorts: ... on Not Believing Vedic Astronomy Apart from Geocentrism, on Believing Scholastic Astronomy Including Geocentrism, 2) ... on Nicole d'Oresme refusing to apply relativity perfectly understood to Geocentric appearances, 3) ... on Black Holes and Geocentrism, 4) Back to Godinci, 5) HGL's F.B. writings: A "Biblical" Heliocentric Misciting Holy Scripture, 6) Vy considers I accused him falsely of mis-citing the Bible, Rod invokes relativity, 7) Vy makes his point more clearly - so do I, 8) New blog on the kid : Columbus and Joshua (Imagine Christopher Columbus had worked a miracle)

Vy (after reading previous posts in series, or first one of them)

Your first article has a loooooo...t of special pleading, damn! That's more than a Darwinist can conjure up to save spontaneous generation.

I hope this is clear, you (or any other geoheliocentrist) CANNOT provide a SINGLE reference from the Bible for:

• a) a revolving solar system
• b) a rotating universe
• c) angels guiding weird planetary geoheliocentric motions d) spirits doing mumbo jumbo with light (seriously, spirits?!??)
• e) spiritual protection against the cosmic tornado that would form.

Now, you claim that the ad populum fallacy is not a fallacy. Using your logic, being gay in the US (or UK or you know where) is OK because more than 50% of the population foolishly agree with such. Yes, 7.x billion people see the sun move around the earth, they however, DO NOT all believe in your model (and after watching Sungenis' video of geoheliocentrism, I can't either). After all, the Bible says the devil appears as an angel of light and it'll be very unwise to believe anyone claiming he really is.

Interruption

But God does not allow him to appear so to ALL of the world before the time of Antichrist and even then the elect will see it through. Back to Vy :

Continued

The germ theory faced opposition from the world-wide belief in demons -> all ailments, Chemistry faced opposition due to its alchemic roots.

Interruption again

The belief ALL ailments come from demons is not world wide, nor is it even by itself in opposition to germ theory. If devil is lord of flies, demons can be small lords over bacteria.

Continued

So yes, if 7.x billion people claim to believe in geoheliocentrism (which they do not) and you claim that that makes geoheliocentrism, you are committing an ad populum fallacy. The fact that I don't see a giant fireball zapping around (while moving upwards AND downwards) the earth at 3% the speed of light thereby creating 24hr long YEARS is evidence enough against geoheliocentrism, for me.

Show me something moving at just 5 - 25% faster than light, and then maybe you can claim everything revolves around the earth. But until then, geoheliocentrism remains in the "Weird concepts from the past" folder.

[Thanks for him admitting there is such a folder!]

Hans-Georg Lundahl

"Now, you claim that the ad populum fallacy is not a fallacy. Using your logic, being gay in the US (or UK or you_know_where) is OK because more than 50% of the population foolishly agree with such"

But world wide and through history, most do not share that folly.

"So yes, if 7.x billion people claim to believe in geoheliocentrism (which they do not) "

Never claimed they all believe it now.

Some uninstructed may believe a flat earth, some with geographical instruction but no astronomic one may believe in something like the ptolemaic system. Most with astronomic instruction have swalled heliocentrism/acentrism. Read again if you read anything as if I had claimed all seven billion BELIEVE geoheliocentrism!

What I did claim and do claim is that the OBSERVATION they all make is an earth being still and a universe of at least sun moon and stars rotating daily around it.

So, a few men have during a few hours or days of their lives made from space observations of being in a still space craft and seeing Earth rotate around its axis.

Which of the two observations is most likely to be true as such and which is most likely to be explained through relativity? THAT was my point. You have not atatcked it because you have not adressed it at all.

"you (or any other geoheliocentrist) CANNOT provide a SINGLE reference from the Bible for:

• a) a revolving solar system
• b) a rotating universe
• c) angels guiding weird planetary geoheliocentric motions d) spirits doing mumbo jumbo with light (seriously, spirits?!??)
• e) spiritual protection against the cosmic tornado that would form."

Seriously, angels are spirits. If you read anything like them "doing mumbo jumbo with light" read again. I wrote they guide planets, whether straightforward as guiding Sun and Moon around Earth and in relation to Fix Stars, or obliquely as guiding Venus or Mars around Sun whereever Sun is, or twice obliquely as guiding Deimos and Phobos around Mars which a third angel is guiding around the Sun which a fourth angel is guiding around Earth.

We do find in Scripture that Joshua told the Sun and the Moon to stop. And they did.

"The fact that I don't see a giant fireball zapping around (while moving upwards AND downwards) the earth at 3% the speed of light thereby creating 24hr long YEARS is evidence enough against geoheliocentrism, for me."

I do not get the point about "24 h long years."

The Day is when Sun gets around Earth. It is a few minutes longer than Fix Stars take for same purpose. The year is when Sun does a circle against the Fix Stars. Against the background of their wider circle.

Sun between Virgo and Earth - days get shorter on Northern and longer on Southern hemisphere and day and night are about equal (at one end point of Virgo, they ARE equal).

Sun between Pisces and Earth days get longer on Northern and shorter on Southern hemisphere and day and night are about equal.

"The fact that I don't see a giant fireball zapping around (while moving upwards AND downwards) the earth at 3% the speed of light"

But you do. You have only been taught to reinterpret that view as caused by relativity rather than by the true motions.

So had I, but I have untaught myself from that, thank God and St Bartholomew and with some help from the writings of St Thomas Aquinas.

Vy

"We do find that in Scripture that Joshua told the Sun and Moon to stop"

No, "we" don't.

What "we" do find is Joshua saying to God to make the movement of the sun and moon as seen from WITHIN the earth (as is expected with a rotating earth) to stop.

He NEVER says UNIVERSE (or as the Bible uses, HEAVENS) STOP, so you better start explaining the biblical basis for a rotating universe.

"the OBSERVATION they all make is an earth being still and a universe of at least sun moon and stars rotating around it"

They DO NOT make such an observation. They DO observe the EXPECTED movement of the sun around the earth. Also, I have never seen a star (other than ours) rotate around the earth.

"Which of the two observations is most likely to be true"

The one of the guys OUTSIDE the earth.

The germ theory is not wrong even though it was one guy that came up with it despite the world wide belief in demons -> all ailments.

So yes, the observation made by the men in the spacecraft is correct. The observation of a moving sun also happens to be correct because we are WITHIN the earth. The Bible uses visually correct language.

"Seriously, angels are spirits"

And you chose to use "spirits" rather than "angels" at most places because???

"But you do. You have only been taught to reinterpret that view aa caused by relativity than by true motions"

Do you know what "zapping around" means?

Can you show a single photo the sun as a "fireball" with a tail (most likely due to solar flares and CMEs while moving at 3% the speed of light around an object severlely smaller than it)??

"The Day is when the sun gets around the earth"

Riiiiiiiight, and according to Sungenis' video, the sun magically does this not just while moving at 3% the speed of light, but also while moving upwards and downwards. You seriously expect me to believe the sun performs such unobserved (and quite impossible) motions?

FYI, I said 24hr long years because revolution (what you call "rotate around" for reasons best known to you) takes a year and in your geoheliocentric model, that's 24 hrs.

You claim that in Joshua, angels controlled the sun (or whatever). Show me a single mention of angels in those verses.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

"What 'we' do find is Joshua saying to God to make the movement of the sun and moon as seen from WITHIN the earth (as is expected with a rotating earth) to stop. "

OK, what does the text say he said?

Then Josue spoke to the Lord, in the day that he delivered the Amorrhite in the sight of the children of Israel, and he said before them: Move not, O sun, toward Gabaon, nor thou, O moon, toward the valley of Ajalon.

Two parts:

• 1) Joshua speaks with God
• 2) Joshua publically adresses Sun and Moon.

Answer this before anything of the rest, please!

I mean before asking me to answer anything of the rest. You tried to riddle me on Bible and you miscited it.

After which

Vy answered no more last day and some others changed the subject.