I disagree myself with the Continuitas link - but about dates.
- IC
- Some even say that Ertruscian language is protoslavic or skythian. But I think it is none-indoeuropean european, like Basque is.
I see first indoeuropeans etnicaly and second lika a language-group. - HGL
- There had been an Italian Etruscologist who has tied word after word of Etruscan to Hungarian. He is not supported by Hungarian Etruscologists or Magyarologists, however.
Indo-Europeans are CERTAINLY a language group. That does not mean they had one single proto language or one common ancestry. Gullah is Indo-European too, since it is English, but its speakers probably descend from Ham. - IC
- I have no idea who Gullahs are. I do not believe in a hungarian conection to Ertruscians. Neither to slavic or skythians. What I believe look above. Yes Indoeuropeans are a language-group, but first of all an ethno-group, in european ethno-group.
- HGL
- Here is "Etruscan, an Archaic form of Hungarian":
Etruscan: an archaic form of Hungarian
(book summary)
by Mario Alinei
http://www.continuitas.org/texts/alinei_etruscan.pdf
Gullah is not a people but a Black Carribean dialect of English. Most famous words in Gullah [outside the community sepaking it themselves]: "Kum ba ya ma lor" = "Come by here my Lord".
So, speakers of Gullah very certainly are NOT European or Japhetic in origin, but their vocabulary is Indo-European.
Unless you would add that "laf-word" is not Indo-European but Germanic non-IE. - IC
- Well than they speak gullah, some english-mix, in the context of conquer and migration which I said all along.
I disagreed with your link at page 5. That is all antieuropean and antiindoeuropean propaganda. The first masters of the plains were Indoeuropeans speaking indoeuropean. It is no good.
What is laf-word? - HGL
- laf-word > laford > lord (meaning "brödvaktare" > "herre")
And stamping Alinei as antieuropean is just stupid.
As for ancestors of those black men adopting an English vocabulary onto their African grammar (not unlike Chinese grammar, isolating though not monosyllabic necessarily), the necessity to learn a new language came to them by captivity and deportation. But that is, as I have said all along, not the only way people can be forced to learn a new language. As I mentioned, the alternative can be learning very many new languages. - IC
- Oh you mean Hlaifweard and Hlaifdige. No; he is antieuropean because of that antieuropean propaganda. Is he a communist? It sounds a bit like bolshevik propaganda.
- HGL
- Oh, is it hlaf with hl? It was anyway not with -ai- since Germanic -ai- > OE -aa-. And as hlaf is not clearly to be tied outside West Germanic to my knowledge (neither Romance nor Scandinavian, have not checked about Gothic), same with weard and dige/dough outside Germanic as a whole (same qualification for my "non-omniscience" about most IE languages).
- IC
- Gothic and skaninavic have "hl".
- HGL
- And no, I read the thing, there is no antieuropean propaganda in it. Some anti-Gimbutas, yes, since he thinks dwellers of Kurgans were Ural-Altaic rather than Indo-European, but that only makes Fenno-Ugrians very old Europeans or at least very old arrivals in Europe.
If they came from North Asia rather than Asiatics from them, that is.
Gothic and Scandinavic have initial group hl, but Scandinavian at least does not have the word hlaf/laib. - IC
- In old norse we had Hlæf, maening "levebröd". Also in slavic there are hleb meaning bread.
["levebröd" - livelihood]
It is antieuropean view, because persuade the altaic group to be masters of the plains. Nowdays antieuropean propaganda comes more and more. It is awful. - HGL
- ah, true, forgot about hleb! OK, Germanic and Slavic then, but not Common IE.
And what is Antieuropean about Hungarians having been masters of the plain for pretty long? Are they not European to you?
Note that hleb and hlaf/laib cannot have been a common inherited word from IE, since Gmc h =/= Slavic h. It can - like plug - be a loan word from one group to other, or it can be a word of earlier COMMON non-IE origin. - STh
- In Finnish leipä. In Estonian leib.
- HGL
- Ah, and these are not IE languages, but Fenno-Ugrian ones. Any ideas about Hungarian?
- STh
- I just checked, trust the Hungarians, it is kenyér.
In Hungarian language great part of the words originate from the previous occupying countries. - HGL
- Ah, hlaf, laib, hlaef, hleb, leipä is a word of the North. Not necessarily from any proto-indo-european times if such existed.
And Hungarian is not the only language with a great many words not from supposed proto-language elsewhere. - STh
- The very difficult grammar in Hungarian is following the same rules, plus some extras, as the Finnish grammar. It is only the words that have changed in the Hungarian. Estonian grammar is somewhat easier but still having the same basic rules.
- HGL
- Nah, Hungarian has objective and subjective double conjugation of the verb.
- STh
- Genetically the Hungarians are 100% Central European origin but particularly grammar is Fenno Ugric.
- HGL
- I seem to recall something about Hungarian and Etruscan peoples can be tied to origins that are counted and at least now would be considered Asiatic.
- STh
- I became curious.
Etruscans, Huns and Hungarians
BY
PROF. DR. ALFRÉD TÓTH
http://www.federatio.org/mi_bibl/AlfredToth_Etruscans.pdf - HGL
- Ah, Toth also takes up Sumerian ... it is true that Sumerian has been described as having "Turanising word order" ...
- STh
- This is also interesting. The Hungarians have been thinking about this connection quite much.
A NOTE ON THE THREEFOLD REPRESENTATION OF "K" IN ARCHAIC ETRUSCAN WRITING
B. Lukács
Central Research Institute for Physics, H-1525 Bp. 114. Pf. 49., Budapest, Hungary
http://www.rmki.kfki.hu/~lukacs/ETRUSCAN.htm - HGL
- And from Toth's lexicon, a word also existing in Germanic and in Sanskrit (Hel/kali):
45 calu “dead”
Alinei 2003, p. 49; Gostony, no. 98
Hung. hal-ni “to die”
Hunn. jalen halni, meghalni, jala halál
PUr *kola-
Sum. hal (55x: ED IIIb, Ur III, Old Babylonian) wr. hal-ha; ha-la; hal “to open a secret; to pouraway; to sieve; to slink, crawl away” - STh
- This you probably have read but still you will get it. I read only the parts I did not know previously. This looks like genuine information.
Controversies in History
[A Lie wellstruct is as Good as Truth]
Origin of Hungarians
http://controversialhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2009/04/origin-of-hungarians.html
Last link is a résumé of diverse theories connected to Hungarian origins, some probably less well founded than others, though I would not know. Mitanni I think is rather connected to Armenians. Otherwise the stuff on the blog is controversial, I cannot recommend it all, read with caution.
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