A Heliocentic Heckled the Ascension of Jesus

HGL's F.B. writings: A Heliocentic Heckled the Ascension of Jesus · Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Reflection on the Ascension · Ascension

Garry Smith

status*

The bible says Jesus rose bodily into heaven and sits at the right hand of the father and will return. Christians also say God exists out of space and time. Wonder how does a physical body get outside of space and time and then return?

I

Hans-Georg Lundahl

God as God exists outside space and time, not meaning "on the outside of" but independently of.

To meet angels He always had a throne room, above the stars, which doesn't exist independently of space and time.

There is where Jesus went.

Thomas Kieft

Hans-Georg Lundahl above the stars, you say? Like billions of light years away?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

One to ten light DAYS up.

The "cosmic distance scale" once it involves fix stars, involves Heliocentric interpretation of the phenomenon labelled "parallax" ... mislabelled according to this Geocentric.

If Heliocentrism (on the local scale) holds, that means that we have a triangle between Earth position A, Earth position B and star AND a known distance between Earth positions A and B, namely 2 AU.

In Geocentrism, the 2 AU are still a known distance but outside the triangle Star position A, Star position B and Earth. Without a known distance IN the triangle, you can't triangulate a distance. If the angle of 0.35 arc seconds doesn't belong to Earth but to Sirius, we cannot know that Sirius is "8.6 Light years away" ...

So, forget about light years, there is no such distance.

In the diagram**, I used alpha Centauri, bad choice, since not main series, so less relevant for cosmic distance scale. I learned the "distance" and parallax for Sirius much more recently.

II

Bruce Molinari

His body took on the qualities of His divinity

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Actually false, if you mean things like inspatiality.

Bruce Molinari

Hans-Georg Lundahlnot how it works; His body is now the same as His divinity: this means that He is everywhere undiminished and is perfect in every way

Hans-Georg Lundahl

That is actually a Monophysitic heresy, and I'm not even sure the Copts or Armenians would accept it.

This was condemned in the Council of Chalcedon.

III

Haangala Simuunka

Can you give a citation where the Bible says Jesus rose "bodily"?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Do you need the actual WORD "bodily"?

1) The disciples SAW Him.
2) St. John SEES Him again, on Patmos.
3) Just in case you think of Theophanies, like God speaking to Adam, in that case God assumed a voice at least, and with Jacob God assumed a body (I'm one who holds that "the angel" was God the Son, before His incarnation), which Jesus doesn't need to since He assumed humanity in the womb of His Virgin Mother.

Haangala Simuunka

Hans-Georg Lundahl So you can't find a passage that actually says he went up bodily?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Haangala Simuunka Yes, I can, unless it's the exact WORD you want.

You admit He claimed to be God when He claimed to be Son of Man, Mark 2 verses 2 to 12, and yet you don't find Him using the word God.

Now your turn. Luke 24 and Acts 1 are the passages, if you pretend He DIDN'T go up bodily, how do YOU explain it, and above all how do you explain the Disciples and all of Church history since then got it wrong?

IV

James Shiers

Evidentially the power to transcend dimensions is part of the answer.

Do you suppose the creator of such dimensions would possess such power?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

I suppose the creator would have such power.

I do not suppose it's a very big part of the answer. It is more of an answer on the Eucharist than on God the Son seated at the right of God the Father.

James Shiers

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Interesting… please elaborate

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Well, at the Right of the Father, Jesus is in normal space, in Empyrean Heaven, above the Fix Stars.

Normal distance between head and feet.

In the Eucharist, head and feet are there, but it's the dimensions of bread that touch surrounding space.

V

James Shiers

The creator of the dimensions (time, space, matter and six other dimensions now proven with the Hadron collider) transcends all dimensions. This is what allows Jesus' miracles to be understood. From water to wine, multiplying bread and fish, walking on water, calming storms, healing sick, raising the dead ... to walking through walls to eat fish dinners after being murdered:

"Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written." - John 21:25

... Jesus demonstrated His divine nature and authority over the four categories that affect humanity: disease, nature, temptation and life itself.

Elaine Holt

James Shiers ....As far as I can tell, your claims come from a book full of contradictions , superstitions, fallacies, and myths from earlier cultures. Do you have a reliable source for your claims?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Elaine Holt As far as I can tell, his claims do not come wholesale from the Bible.

It is a reliable source for the event, by the way, if not for James Shiers' explanation, since it isn't in there. Specifically this statement on material reality:

"the dimensions (time, space, matter and six other dimensions now proven with the Hadron collider)"

No, they aren't. Hadron colliders can be very misinterpreted.

Elaine Holt's answer

and the ensuing debate merit a post of their own:

Elaine Holt Took Off at a Tangent

* Timely the day before Ascension in 2026. ** Original on a disconnected old blog of mine :

Geo vs Helio | hglwrites
May 29, 2012 | hglundahl
https://hglwrites.wordpress.com/2012/05/29/geo-vs-helio/