vendredi 20 juin 2025

If the Church is Very Reduced, the Pope Is at Some Risk of Being Bamboozled by Bigger Actors


Vatican In Exile
7 h ago
The Filioque

The Visigoths, upon converting from Arianism to Nicene Christianity, adopted the Filioque clause in the Nicene Creed at the Third Council of Toledo in 589, called by King Reccared I (King of Spain and southern France) This addition, meaning "and from the Son," affirmed that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son, a point of theological contention that later contributed to the East-West Schism.

Elaboration:
Visigothic Conversion:

The Visigoths, initially adherents of Arianism (which viewed the Son as subordinate to the Father), converted to Nicene Christianity, which affirms the full divinity of the Son and the Holy Spirit.

The Filioque Clause:

The Filioque ("and from the Son") clause was added to the Nicene Creed to clarify the relationship between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Specifically, it stated that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son, not just the Father.

Third Council of Toledo (589):

This council, invoked and controlled by King Reccared I (King of Spain and southern France) held in Visigothic Spain in Toledo 45 miles south of Madrid, marked the official adoption of the Filioque clause into the Western Christian tradition.

Theological Significance:

The Filioque became a point of contention between the Western (Latin) and Eastern (Greek) branches of Christianity. The Eastern Orthodox Church generally rejected the Filioque, emphasizing the Holy Spirit's procession from the Father alone.

Traditional Triadology (Holy balance in the Trinity):

Nicene theology (325 ad) particularly in the East, emphasizes that each person of the Trinity has unique characteristics, but certain attributes (like Godhood and eternality) are shared by all. The filioque, by linking the Spirit's procession to the Son, is seen as introducing a shared characteristic that isn't universal to all three persons, thus upsetting the balance in the Trinity.

East-West Schism:

The Filioque controversy, among other factors, contributed to the Great Schism of 1054, which formally divided the Western (Catholic) and Eastern (Orthodox) churches.

Continued Debate:

While the Filioque is a standard part of the Nicene Creed in the Catholic Church, it remains a point of theological discussion and sometimes disagreement between the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

Painting of King Reccared I below

[painting omitted]

Hans-Georg Lundahl
The Visigoths, upon converting from Arianism to Nicene Christianity, adopted the Filioque clause in the Nicene Creed at the Third Council of Toledo in 589, called by King Reccared I (King of Spain and southern France)


False History.

At the Third Council of Toledo, there was no discussion of the Filioque.

The council opened with a Latin text of the Nicene Creed, and the Filioque was already there.

If it didn't come from the original autograph at Constantinople (Nicaea ended at "and the Holy Ghost, Amen"), it was probably a contamination from the topical creed against Priscillianism, issued by FIRST Council of Toledo, in 400 AD, well before the Visigoths arrived.

I've treated this in the page here, most of which is a Latin text of that creed and my English parallel translation:

Trento - Philaret (Catechisms) : Filioque far older than III Council of Toledo
https://trentophilaret.blogspot.com/p/filioque-far-older-than-iii-council-of.html


Hans-Georg Lundahl
Correction to previous, I spoke as per memory of a text I perused in a book and probably missed parts of.

Filioque is reaffirmed in Toledo III, but was, as mentioned, already affirmed in Toledo I.

Pater ex quo sit filius, ipse vero ex nullo sit alio. Filius quia habeat patrem, sed sine initio et sine diminutione, in ea qua patri coęqualis et coaeternus est divinitate subsistat. Spiritusque sanctus confitendus a nobis, et praedicandus est a patre et filio procedere, et cum patre et filio unius esse substantiae.


Third Synod of Toledo / Synodus Toletana Tertia:
https://www.benedictus.mgh.de/quellen/chga/chga_045t.htm


Credimus [c] in unum verum deum patrem et filium et spiritum sanctum visibilium et invisibilium factorem, per quem creata sunt omnia in caelo et in terra, unum deum et unam esse divinae substantiae trinitatem. Patrem autem non esse filium ipsum, sed habere filium qui pater non sit. Filium non esse patrem, sed filium dei de patris esse natura. Spiritum quoque esse paraclitum, qui nec pater sit ipse, nec filius, sed a patre filioque procedens. Est ergo ingenitus pater, genitus filius, non genitus paraclitus, sed a patre filioque procedens.


First Council of Toledo / Concilium Toletanum primum:
https://www.benedictus.mgh.de/quellen/chga/chga_043t.htm

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