On "Nimrod, Semiramis, Tammuz" Canard

StG

[published an excellent little essay. AM's initial comment was in response to one phrase in it about atheists and their "4200 religions meme" - he did not give a link to a blog, but allowed me to make a post, so you can see the text without having to log on to FB:

A Christian has One Chance in 4200 to be Right, Really? [Guest Post]
https://hglsfbwritings.blogspot.com/2019/01/a-christian-has-one-chance-in-4200-to.html]

AM

I always tell them to read the book of Jasher to get to know where does all those pagan religions come from (Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz), and there also states that people just made gods out of nowhere. And Islam was created be the vatican, research ex Jesuit priest Alberto a Rivera whom they murdered for revealing this secrets from the libraries of the vatican.

HGL

"I always tell them to read the book of Jasher to get to know where does all those pagan religions come from (Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz)"

It says so in the pretended "Book of Jasher"?

Bc Christian OT historiography says sth else.

In the time of Sarug, one Ninus (not Nimrod) was in grief over the death of his father Bel, and erected a statue of him, which statue he loved so much that he pardoned criminals who embraced it and then they started adoring the statue.

AM

HGL yes, the pretended book quoted in the Bible by Samuel and Joshua.

HGL

The book I call pretended lacks the quote from it in Samuel.

That's one reason to think it is not the same book.

As you know the stuff you are promoting, what exact place in "Book of Jasher" has this allegation about beginning of paganism?

AM

HGL no, you got your timeline wrong. Nimrod was Noah's grandson, and because the tower of Babel became too be known with many different names, since all languages were created in there. Baal was another name for Nimrod.

HGL

It is the late Rabbinic forgery Book of Jasher that gets chronology wrong.

Nimrod was long dead in the time of Ninus.

[It's content need not be late Rabbinic nor more forgery than Rabbinic midrashim overall, but it's title is usurped by a late forgery.]

AM

Who is Ninus in the biblical timeline? The lines of Noah are well written, and besides Nimrod was the one who founded Babel, Niniveh and other cities. He is also known as Gilgamesh. So where is this Ninus? Since no alive man was left in the flood and only the 8 people in the ark were the only ones left to repopulate the WHOLE EARTH.?

Was Ninus son of Shem, Japhet or Ham?

It wouldn't surprise me that 'Ninus' is just another of Nimrod's names.

[table of names omitted]

And those are just a few... Every language on earth started to give him a different name, just as semiramis and the son tammuz. (exactly how the vatican depicts their false Christianity) with the image of the virgin with the child on her arms.

HGL

I have heard that exact claim before.

"Who is Ninus in the biblical timeline?"

He is extrabiblical.

"The lines of Noah are well written, and besides Nimrod was the one who founded Babel, Niniveh and other cities."

Nimrod arguably founded the Babel which is Göbekli Tepe.

Also, it is not clear even that he's identic to the Asshur who built Nineveh.

Now Chus begot Nemrod: he began to be mighty on the earth. [9] And he was a stout hunter before the Lord. Hence came a proverb: Even as Nemrod the stout hunter before the Lord. [10] And the beginning of his kingdom was Babylon, and Arach, and Achad, and Chalanne in the land of Sennaar.

So far on Nimrod.

[11] Out of that land came forth Assur, and built Ninive, and the streets of the city, and Chale. [12] Resen also between Ninive and Chale: this is the great city.

This could be a person later than Nimrod.

Now neither is claimed to have invented idolatry.

"He is also known as Gilgamesh."

That is possible. It is possible Gilgamesh claiming to have visited Utnapishtim reflects some claim by Nimrod to have seen Noah, and a spurious one.

"So where is this Ninus?"

In Babylon, possibly, arguably when it was founded by Amorrhaeans, after the time of Joseph.

Note, Egyptian paganism seems to have another root than Babylonian.

But considering Sumerians are known to have adored idols, perhaps it is rather the beginning of Ur in Sumeria (not necessarily identic to Ur of Chaldeans).

"Since no alive man was left in the flood and only the 8 people in the ark were the only ones left to repopulate the WHOLE EARTH.?"

That was centuries before Sarug and therefore centuries before Ninus.

"Was Ninus son of Sjem, Japhet or Ham?"

Neither son nor grandson, but probably a much later generation and very probably Ham's line, like Nimrod before him.

"It wouldn't surprise me that 'Ninus' is just another of Nimrod's names."

It is claimed by some ...

Are you referring to the Jasher printed by Jews in Venice 1625, or the Jasher claimed to have been trasnlated by Alcuin, printed in England?

Also, what I know of Egyptian paganism doesn't fit in with both Osiris and Horus being Tammuz ...

"(exactly how the vatican depicts their false Christianity) with the image of the virgin with the child on her arms."

Are you quoting this book?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Jasher_(Pseudo-Jasher)

[This forgery is not Rabbinic]

AM

HGL why do you think the vatican hid it, along with Enoch and others which are really inspired.

The Bible was not written in English, but the KJV 1611 (anda yes, I know also that there is another version by the freemasons...) is the most close translation but that is another different topic.

Read Jasher and you can quickly tell if it fits or is bogus... But the worst is just to stay ignorant because the vatican told you.

You will see all those 'claims and questions' you state are pretty well put together in there.

And if you say Enoch is not biblical and authentic, believe, your know nothing then..

HGL and give proof then this Ninus built or what did he do exactly!? Your are proving nothing, just trying to disqualify with a fable

Pass me your 'Ninus' links please

HGL and so, from whom 'Ninus' was born? Since what you say its way before Nimrod, only had 3 generations to spring from. (everyone died in the flood). Who were Ninus parents?

Or because you believe is 'extra biblical' there were more people alive after the flood??

HGL

Henoch is another topic, it does not involve any claim about Nimrod in family with Semiramis and Tammuz.

Meaning of course the Ethiopian book of Henoch.

It may be inspired or not, genuine or not, it is not canonic bc of hesitations about it's being genuine and well preserved.

Now, there are TWO available books on the market labelled Book of Jasher, and I don't think either of them is the genuine deal that is cited in the Bible.

Just because I am a Catholic and do believe definitions of the Catholic Church (not apostasised Vatican II sect's Vatican), doesn't mean I don't think for myself.

"Since what you say its way before Nimrod"

No, way after Nimrod, Sarug being way after Peleg.

Now, my link on Ninus is older than either printed work labelled book of Jasher, it is Historia Scholastica for which there are medieval manuscripts.

Here it is on wikisource in Latin:

De dispersione filiorum Noe et Nemrod
Vicifons : Historia Scholastica : Genesis
https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Historia_Scholastica_(Genesis)#De_dispersione_filiorum_Noe.2C_et_Nemrod.

I have linked to the section on Nimrod, but if you scroll down you see Ninus coming later.

NOW, I did an English translation on both passages, here:

Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : What is a Nation? part I
https://filolohika.blogspot.com/2014/07/what-is-nation-part-i.html

AM

Oh... That explains it all... You are still trapped in the matrix... I'm am ex catholic btw... The gotcha buddy..

HGL you still have to realize and wake up that the worst enemy of the Bible and the truth is the vatican, and it is a satanic institution COMPLETELY.

HGL

"from whom 'Ninus' was born? Since what you say its way before Nimrod, he ponle had 3 generations to spring from. (everyone died in the flood). Who were Ninus parents?"

You are getting chronology of Ninus seriously wrong.

Flood was arguably 2957 BC, Serug was born 2294 BC, and that is way after Tower of Babel which was arguably in these years: Babel begins 2602 BC - Babel ends 2562 BC.

Citing from my table where Biblical chronoology and inflated carbon dates are made convertible for the time or part of the time they differ:

Creation vs. Evolution : Refining table Flood to Abraham - and a doubt
https://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2018/05/refining-table-flood-to-abraham-and.html

So, Ninus is after Tower of Babel. After Nimrod.

"That explains it all... You are still trapped in the matrix... I'm am ex catholic btw... The gotcha buddy.."

When you apostasised, what did you do of the Matthew 28:20 problem for Protestantism?

"you still have to realize and wake up that the worst enemy of the Bible and the truth is the vatican, and it is a satanic institution COMPLETELY."

If you meant the Antipopes who have usurped it in recent decades, even they have to give some show of Catholicism and do some things that genuinely belong to it.

As you mean the Vatican overall, several centuries back, you are simply wrong.

Some snake oil salesman has bamboozled you, perhaps after you were disappointed over sth in the Vatican II Sect.

AM

HGL flood was about 4500 years ago.. And exactly Kent Hovind s videos (you know, the one who is this page about) proves it over and over.

I believing you gotta watch the series...

And also, guess WHO is the virgin with the child on her arms that the catholics all the time use on the church buildings? Semiramis and Tammuz. Born December 25th (and the vatican moved Jesus birthday to December 25 'coincidentally', and imposed the gregorian calendar in order to erase and confound the real Moeds of Elohim, in which Jesus was born on September and fulfilled many aspects of proof of his diety. But of course, catholicism has tried to hide this all. No matter how much I debate with you, because you are trapped in that trap. And I understand perfectly because I was a catholic. So... I can only pray for you).

You might have eyes to read, but not heart to understand. Pray God and he spoil give you understanding and wisdom.

HGL

"flood was about 4500 years ago.."

2019 AD (c.)
2957 BC
4976 years ago (c.)

"And exactly Kent Hovind s videos (you know, the one who is this page about) proves it over and over."

The Masoretic over the LXX timeline? Don't think he went into that one very much.

"I believing you gotta watch the series..."

I do watch individual videos, Kent Hovind has some really decent points.

"And also, guess WHO is the virgin with the child on her arms that the catholics all the time use on the church buildings?"

No need to guess, I know what is real, and I knew in advance what you imagine.

"Semiramis and Tammuz."

Look, I am now at Jasher Chapter 43, skimming through somewhat quickly, and haven't found any Semiramis or Tammuz ...

Sacred Texts : Jasher : Chapter 43
https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/43.htm

[back to their intro:]

// This is one of the apochrypal Books of Jasher. There are several (as many as five) separate works by this title, all composed much later than Biblical times. This particular one is a translation of a Hebrew book printed in 1613. Sepir Ha Yasher, the Hebrew title of this book, means the 'Book of the Upright', or 'the Upright or Correct Record'. This title was misread as 'Jasher', and at some point Jasher was treated as a proper name; however the pronoun 'the' (hebrew 'ha') never preceeds proper names. //

"Born December 25th (and the vatican moved Jesus birthday to December 25 'coincidentally', and imposed the gregorian calendar in order to erase and confound the real Moeds of Elohim, in which Jesus was born on September"

Rather, it was the sacrifice of Zacharias which was in september:

Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : Second week of Tishri + 15 Month = Christmas
https://filolohika.blogspot.com/2018/12/second-week-of-tishri-15-month-christmas.html

As for December 25 being the birthday of anyone before, the Julian calendar didn't exist too long before, and the Roman pre-Julian calendars wasn't important for long before Julius Caesar and the pre-Roman calendars don't have the month December and don't work the way that a date can be translated from their terminology to a Julian December.

Babylonian year had 360 days. If one started January 1st, next started December 27, the one after that December 21, except if a Julian or Gregorian leap year came around, which would have meant an added six days, not just five days of difference to previous year's "translation."

Egyptian year had 365 days and no leap years. There too, no such thing as a fixed translation.

Greek and Hebrew calendars did have lunisolar years with at least one month's variability about what Julian or Gregorian date they would correspond to.

"and fulfilled many aspects of proof of his diety. But of course, catholicism has tried to hide this all."

Not of Christ fulfilling many aspects of His deity, no.

"No matter how much I debate with you, because you are trapped in that trap."

Your thinking that traps you in a trap.

"And I understand perfectly because I was a catholic."

Not quite comparable, I converted to Catholicism.

"So... I can only pray for you). You might have eyes to read, but not heart to understand. Pray God and he spoil give you understanding and wisdom."

I am willing to debate you, if you dare, but I find your admonitions superfluous.

AM

HGL so you claim to know anything about freemasonry and believe in catholicism?? That's a compete contradiction.

You are deceived.

HGL

Catholic Church condemned freemasonry.

You made this claim:

"And Islam was created be the vatican, research ex Jesuit priest Alberto a Rivera whom they murdered for revealing this secrets from the libraries of the vatican."

I am sad Kent Hovind also believes that stuff, one of his less bright moments.

AM

And the Babilonian roots of catholicism, and the pedophilia (which is part of the 'ingredients' of black Magick, which has been since Babylon, (another 'concidence')

"catholic church condemned freemasonry"...?

Yes, but you know nothing about freemasonry and how they work. And your comment proves it. (they always play both sides, the good and the bad). Soak yourself in a youtube channel named "call for an uprising" and search some of his stuff related to freemasonry.

HGL

If freemasonry plays both sides, how come you are not bamboozled by freemasons?

If you mean since they do so no one can recognise the Church Christ founded, since it could be freemasons, you contradict Matthew 28:20.

"And the Babilonian roots of catholicism, "

In Hislop's dirty imagination.

"and the pedophilia"

By which God chose to remind the Vatican II Sect that they had apostasised by ecumenism with Anglicanism .

AM

Hans-Georg Lundahl Mmmh.. Super tough question to answer here shortly. I might give you an essay of 'Don Quijote' much faster... You have a lot to research, and carefully , because they have propagated now so much deflection of who they really are and what they do and believe on the high degrees that is hard to fing the genuine info. Watch that channel.

HGL

I take that as you are not continuing the argument this evening?

Have a pleasant evening, then!

[Note, I was not greeting this heretic with a formal religious "peace"!]

Update

AM

HGL I've told you what you need to know in order to wake up.

As long as you are still deceived by the vatican we cannot jump to the next phase.

HGL

I am jumping nowhere with you.

[+ linked to this post]

AM

HGL exactly, because you are not listening. Just replying whatever in order to not stay quiet. You will never be able to see beyond the blindfolders if you don't want to really.

HGL

Oh, by the way, your procedure of "next phase" and "I told you what you need to know" is very masonic. How do YOU know you are not the one deluded by Masons pretending to be Antimasonic?

And Blindfolders is EXTREMELY like the vocabulary of my Masonic acquaintances, who did not make me apostasise from Christianity.

AM

HGL yeah, because in your belief you think I'm like the ones in apostasy because you believe the true church is catholicism. That's how they trap you.

HGL "If every catholic started to actually treat their bibles, there would be no catholicism yet."

HGL

I was not trapped, I walked into what you call a trap and out of it and into another one (Catholicism against Vatican II).

I was very familiar with the Bible before converting and even more since converting.

You tell why you think YOUR Church is the one Christ started, and how it spans all centuries, not why MINE isn't.

AM

HGL you walked into a trap, thats correct.

HGL

We differ on why the Vatican II Sect is a trap, you say because it is Catholic, I say because it isn't Catholic.

You are still behind in your accounting for your church in 7th C.

AM

HGL because NO denominational church organized as a religion is correct. All of them contradict the Bible. Very easy to dismiss them....

If your 'religion' contradicts the Bible your religion is WRONG.

"Call no man on earth Father".... Paraphrasing..

How do you call every priest that stands in there?? FATHER! just as easy as that.!

HGL

"because NO denominational church organized as a religion is correct."

Where was your non-denominational Christianity in 7th C AD?

AM

Your really need to see Hovinds videos...

HGL

I enjoy what he has to say on the Gilligan's Island situation after the Flood ...

AM

You will not understand. Simply. Start doing your research and you will be guided.

HGL

I have done my research, and I have been guided TO Catholicism.

AM

HGL you're blind that's all I will say.

HGL

Then have a pleasant evening, this is not a formal peace, however, STOP badgering me with "admonitions" about my having to wake up.

AM

Hans-Georg Lundahl then stop pretending to know REAL history with 'Ninus' and get into the Bible.

... Which includes the books of Enoch and Jasher

HGL

I am ready to debate you, but the origin of idolatry is not given in the Bible.

And it does neither include Enoch nor Jasher.

And debating is sth other than giving admonitions, show some manners and don't behave like a Masonic or Communist venerable or Politruk, OK!