Someone admired Kent Hovind without my reservations

HGL's F.B. writings : A Shorty from a Long Debate : on Innocent III as a pretended "mass murderer of Christians" · Albigensians and Innocent III - Which was the Christian Side? · "Sola Scriptura inevitably results in countless contradicting theologies." · Someone admired Kent Hovind without my reservations · Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : Kent Hovind's Errors on Anti-Catholicism and Heliocentrism

This is what happened:

FB

I believe with all my heart that Kent Hovind is a devout bible scholar, therefore I must conclude that he is a man of God.

I

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Why?

It's like saying "I believe with all my heart that Kent Hovind misrepresents Catholicism, therefore I must conclude he is a man of the devil".

He does that, but fortunately, he most often concentrates on other stuff.

Michel Snoeck

Other people may say that those that adore and defend Catholicism are doing the work of the devil. All that amassing of riches, why not give it to the poor... 🤔

AT

Its because Jesus said to keep the money for yourself!

Oh wait, He didnt say that...

Mt 19:21
“If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor"

But the Bible speaks about a Church that will be wealthy on this planet, the Church of Babylon:

Rev 17
"And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand...And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth."

"By accident" the same Church sits on 7 hills, is arrayed in purple colours and rules the world.

"And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

Michel Snoeck

Matthew 19:24: And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Guess which Church actually encourages members to become Franciscan?

"Other people may say that those that adore and defend Catholicism are doing the work of the devil."

Even if they don't misrepresent you?

Michel Snoeck

It is not about the tings you say, it is the things you do! Your walk in life tells where you are at, not one's words. 🤔

Hans-Georg Lundahl

in certain walks, like me being a writer, saying is doing

in certain connexions too, saying is doing

I was reacting to a overimpulsive characterisation of Kent Hovind, by pointing out there is another side.

Someone took a cue from that to start ... Catholic bashing.

Michel Snoeck "Your walk in life tells where you are at, not one's words."

If that is supposed to be educative, you are a few decades too late - fortunately, I would not have been happy to have you among those educating me.

In this forum, how we deal with each other is words.

Words can be fair - or unfair.

A fair disagreement would have been sth like "where is Kent Hovind misrepresenting Catholicism?"

Well, if you had posed that question (but don't let me put words into your mouth), I would have answered last time in his Q and A video with the words "which Church" in the title.

Video:

11/26/18 - Dr. Kent Hovind: Questions and Answers - Which Church?
Kent Hovind OFFICIAL | 27.XI.2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu-KzqbG-Pc

Summary of my comments (on two topics only):

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : Kent Hovind's Errors on Anti-Catholicism and Heliocentrism
https://assortedretorts.blogspot.com/2018/11/kent-hovinds-errors-on-anti-catholicism.html

AT "the Bible speaks about a Church that will be wealthy on this planet, the Church of Babylon"

It involves another Church which was probably pretty wealthy just after Pentecost:

Acts 2:[44] And all they that believed, were together, and had all things common. [45] Their possessions and goods they sold, and divided them to all, according as every one had need.

If 3000 souls, including some travellers from afar, were not very poor to start with, the arrangement would have made the Church fairly wealthy .... right?

The guys who attacked this arrangement 500 years ago or a little less, are historically known as Protestants.

Michel Snoeck

No, we deal with that which we can forward that support those words we say. Words themselves are insignificant.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Oh, you prefer examples (apart from your Stoic frowning on words being Antichristian, see John 1:1)?

"As members of a religious congregation the Missionaries Oblates of Mary Immaculate embrace the evangelical counsels, taking the three traditional religious vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. Poverty means that all possessions are held in common and that no member may accumulate wealth. Chastity, abstaining from sexual activity, is intended to make the religious totally available for religious service."

Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missionary_Oblates_of_Mary_Immaculate

Father Wilhelm Imach, OMI, arguably spent less money on his personal clothes than your pastor. It's too late to attack him, he received me into the Catholic Church except he was accepting the wrong Pope (a Pole like himself at the time) and said the Novus Ordo Mass.

Oh, it's too late to attack him for another reason, he died a few years ago.

He had previous to that been beaten up by Muslims in the neighbourhood.

To clarify

as far as I know, not immediately previous.

Michel Snoeck

No, not examples.... results in real life in present day!

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Oh, "results" .... sorry, but "results in real life" is NOT what Creation versus Evolution debate is about.

It's about what words are true and about what words are false.

What I do - with reservations - admire Kent Hovind for is speaking up against textbooks and other sh*** promoting Evolution.

As for his "results in real life" ... not the ground admirers of his should take. Being out of prison is nice, but implies having been there (as with him, so with me). And someone mentioned Apocalypse and it would seem a certain entity described in Apocalypse 17 up to a certain point will have made very great results in real life.

But perhaps you meant results in personal poverty. Well, you ask your pastor what he spends on clothes per year and then you go to a Catholic priest of the OMI congregation (present in Scania) and ask him what the soutane and keeping it in shape costs.

FB

Yes, words are powerful they are even powerful to hurt, Kent Hovind has proven this during his demonstration in debunking the theories of evolution with providing scriptural verses in creationalism, but also when you provide actual results such as maps showing timelines of real live events that has occured over centuries ago speaks volumes to the credibility of the texts and authors therein.

Kent was able to do this using scripture he used Genesis 1:1-4 as he broke down each verse in real time using the timeline map to pinpoint the exact date of the occurance when God precisely began what, starting with the land appearing and the trees and scrubery, plants and hurbs, then animals and lastly, humans this was where he went ove to Genesis 1:26-27 where he did a marvelous job explaining how God made man from the dust of the ground and how he formed woman from man when he put him in a deep sleep.

JC not JC

Michel Snoeck That sounds like Judas. Have you read what Judas said? You literally sound exactly like him. Judas worked for Satan by helping murder Jesus.

Hans-Georg Lundahl It's incredibly how a Kent Hovind fan can sound exactly like Judas, essentially agreeing with Judas, and then say a Catholic is working for Satan. Insane.

Michel Snoeck

Well JC not JC, what exactly did I say and what exactly did Judas say, and where did he say that... I haven't seen that forwarded yet.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

FB "Yes, words are powerful they are even powerful to hurt, Kent Hovind has proven this during his demonstration in debunking the theories of evolution with providing scriptural verses in creationalism,"

Oh, on that side I rather admire Kent Hovind.

And he does more than just provide Scriptural verses.

"but also when you provide actual results such as maps showing timelines of real live events that has occured over centuries ago"

Here we are on shakier grounds. History more recent than Acts and less recent than Civil War is not Kent Hovind's best ground.

"speaks volumes to the credibility of the texts and authors therein."

If you mean Bible authors, well, yes, but that is not "centuries" but millennia ago. The most recent books, namely NT, nearly two thousand years old.

"Kent was able to do this using scripture he used Genesis 1:1-4 as he broke down each verse in real time etc."

No big issue with this, except I think he is wrong on some dates (he'd perhaps go with October 4004 BC, I go with March 5199 BC).

If you have not yet seen Kent Hovind misrepresent Church history, I can see why you admire him, but I think such an assessment as you made was hasty.

Michel Snoeck, I think JC not JC refers to this comment:

"Other people may say that those that adore and defend Catholicism are doing the work of the devil. All that amassing of riches, why not give it to the poor..."

If by "amassing of riches" you mean luxurious items in liturgy, yes, it sounds VERY much like Judas Ischariot.

"Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?"
[John 12:5]

(Note that the penny was previously worth more and used as translation for denarius).

JC not JC

Michel Snoeck Judas also wanted to sell things that were made/purchased for the purpose of praising God. You would be one of the other disciples who agreed with him. Wrong side of history.

Hans-Georg Lundahl Just goes to show that these Hovind fans sound like cultists. Kent Hovind even has his own compound where he asks for donations at the beginning of every YT video he makes.

Michel Snoeck

If that, JC not JC, is what you use to associate me with Judas, then it is silly... Jesus said things to the same effect...

HGL

DP "don’t forget the forgiving sins for a price too."

Never happened.

"Jesus said things to the same effect..."

Not about riches devoted to Him (like ointment of St Mary Magdalene or gold on a chalice in Church).

FB

People forget that.

This is why I do not do religion is because everything is counterfiet even though there are those individuals who are religious they present themselves as being holier then thou like they know no sin.

This is the problem with religion.

HGL

DP "Catholics trading labor and money for the forgiveness of sins to cut down their time in purgatory is called Indulgences"

Check your facts.

Luther is not an unbiassed historian, neither are the other Protestant Reformers.

In Sweden someone tried to put this lie in a text book, and Catholics are suing him for it, or at least contacting the company editing his book.

DP "They also removed the 2nd commandment about idols"

Ten commandments in 16 verses, how exactly do YOU tell where one commandment begins and another ends?

If you meant catechisms giving shorter versions, not giving full text, so did Jesus and the rich young man in Gospel of Mark.

FB

They are all precepts, precept upon precept, line upon line is what the scripture says.

HGL

So, there are 16 commandments? I thought it said somewhere, they were ten!

HGL

[checked and]

Yes, I was right:

"And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights: he neither ate bread nor drank water, and he wrote upon the tables the ten words of the covenant."
[Exodus 34:28]
"And he shewed you his covenant, which he commanded you to do, and the ten words that he wrote in two tables of stone."
[Deuteronomy 4:13]
"And he wrote in the tables, according as he had written before, the ten words, which the Lord spoke to you in the mount from the midst of the fire, when the people were assembled: and he gave them to me."
[Deuteronomy 10:4]

So - sixteen verses Exodus 20:2 to 17, contain only TEN words.

Now, where do you tell where a word begins and where a word ends in these 16 verses?

Or you meant, however you divide, you must cite all of the text in Exodus 20?

No, not really.

Matthew 19:[18] He said to him: Which? And Jesus said: Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness. [19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

But "Honour thy father and thy mother" is far shorter than Exodus 20:[12] "Honour thy father and thy mother, that thou mayest be longlived upon the land which the Lord thy God will give thee."

FB

Yes, 16 commandments in all for the Beatitudes in Matthew 5:12-17 are the rest of the commandments these are from those who possess a pure heart to do the will of the Father. So, in essence the 10 commandments do correlate with much of the NT. because of much of the 10 commandments are dealing with reverence towards God.

HGL

You are contradicting the Bible when you say there are 16 commandments.

FB

It is important to see how this all correlates with the teachings of the apostles for they all speak and point to the 7 churches which is why the 7 churches are not pagan worship because they do not come from pagan origins this was why John had wrote to them to encourage them to remain faithful and in the keeping of sound doctrine.

There are, we still have the 10 commandments we just don't have the 4th commandment which partains only to Israel Jesus has already fulfilled all of the old laws so when he had died and risen he had put an end to all those ritual laws and now the kingdom belongs to whoever comes unto Christ.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Well, guess what, one of them had an Eastern Orthodox bishop into XXth C. who would not have agreed with you (he later became bishop of Athens). Ephesus also had Roman Catholic bishops claiming the see without being there.

"are not pagan worship because they do not come from pagan origins"

How do you tell WHAT comes from pagan origins? Because Kent Hovind tells you?

"There are, we still have the 10 commandments"

In 16 verses, mind you. Now, again, tell me how you tell where a commandment ends and next one begins?

II

JC not JC

Kent Hovind believes Christianity went extinct.

It's not the blood of the martyrs which saved the true religion of Christ, it's the Protestants apparently. Never mind that they are splintered into tens of thousands of sects. Coz that just means nothing…Voir plus

HGL

Kent Hovind actually believes in Baptist Continuity theory.

He believes Baptists are original and non-extinct Church, and that Reformation added a second not true kind of Church to Catholicism.

He probably believes, as do some in this group, that martyrdoms of Early Christians went on ininterrupted over "martyrdoms" of Waldensians and Albigensians up to Reformation.

JC not JC

HGL That's even more idiotic. Invisible Baptists never reunited with the Baptists of the 1600s. He might as well believe in invisible leprechauns.

HGL

With these guys, historic knowledge is not the overreaching achievement.

FB

That is what I am saying JC not JC, this proves he is not Southern Baptist, just a Baptist pretty soon he going to discover the ultimate truth of his salvation he's been preaching and teaching truth so far.

HGL

Oh, you mean he is going to become Catholic?

III

FB

Kent Hovind is a mastermind of showing proof backed up by scripture he presents.

HGL

Nice enough with Creationism.

Not quite so with Church history.

IV

FB

With Christianity it is a way of life we practice what we preach we do not teach from the bible and then go out and purposely sin against God we are creators of habit so we are also creators who fall short, but that does not give us an excuse to sin just because we are in the flesh.

Constitinopole had made it his life's mission to spread the boarders of the Christian church making Christianity the authentic relgion on paper.

HGL

I don't get what you mean. Are you referring to Constantine after whom Constantinople is named?

FB

Yes I am.

HGL

OK, what do you mean by "on paper"?

FB

He was not the founder of Christianity he only petitioned the Christian movement as the official religious movement and still is thriving today.

HGL

He is certainly not the founder of Christianity, but he made it legal.

Thanks to him, Christians need not hide in catacombs when praying together and those representing it need not fear for their lives.

FB

These are changing times we're living in Christianity as a whole is being challenged and at some points compremised this is why we need not go off the ban waggon compremising our faith God because that is all I have left. The devil is doing all he can to make a mockery of our faith in Christ.

HGL

Well, that's an extra reason to be Catholic.

V

FB

When you think about it the first day of the week begins on Sunday this is the day when the Lord Jesus Christ arosed from the grave this places emphasis on the church because it was through the sheding of blood that he bought all mankind from the grave of sin and death rendering all humans with hope of eternal life.

FB

Think about the # 7 for a minute how perfect that # is it shows a greater significance in the building of the new Jerusalem in how it plays out on Mars Hill when Peter had preached that first gospel sermon and 3,000 souls responded to the gospel message, this is a powerful message within this message John the Revelator written to each of the 7 churches in Asia Minor.

HGL

"on Mars Hill when Peter had preached that first gospel sermon and 3,000 souls"

Mars Hill is Athens, and Paul.

Peter in Jerusalem, that was the 3000 souls.

FB

Exactly.

HGL

Yes ... (and I think you have either shown sloppy Bible knowledge or an intent of testing mine, whatever good that would be for).