Geocentrism vs "Simon Skinner"

Geocentrism defended,
A against reasons Geocentrism Defended Against FrJerome Zeiler
B against ad hominems Geocentrism vs "Simon Skinner"

Simon Skinner*

status, 6.IX.2023

The overwhelming majority of people I've encountered on the internet who claim the earth is stationary and at the centre of the universe, and also claim that science is based on motivated lies and assumptions in order to hide God, also similarly claim the earth is flat.

You'll already be well aware of this from internet search results for geocentrism, and several posts here (including from admins) have recycled their same material.

These are people of faith who claim an evil conspiracy by those in power to undermine religion. However, by their ridiculous claims, dishonest tactics and promotion of accompanying right-wing conspiracy theories, they actually cause serious damage to the image and credibility of religion.

Are you not worried that this group has the same effect ?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

// The overwhelming majority of people I've encountered on the internet who claim the earth is stationary and at the centre of the universe, and also claim that science is based on motivated lies and assumptions in order to hide God, also similarly claim the earth is flat. //

May be the case among Judaising Protestants, but not among Catholics.

// You'll already be well aware of this from internet search results for geocentrism, and several posts here (including from admins) have recycled their same material. //

Flat earthers are perhaps overly sceptical about voyages, and part time inept about horizon questions, but that doesn't mean that they are wrong in showing healthy skepsis against pseudo-arguments for Heliocentrism. Nor that they will miss the objections that are also obvious to round-earthers.

// These are people of faith who claim an evil conspiracy by those in power to undermine religion. //

Have you checked out what the Russian revolution changed, and how much of it is implemented outside Communist countries as well?

Have you heard of the Kulturkampf and the Third Republic? How much of those politics are being recycled and some Catholics don't dare to mention it?

// However, by their ridiculous claims, dishonest tactics and promotion of accompanying right-wing conspiracy theories, they actually cause serious damage to the image and credibility of religion. //

Image and credibility before whom?

As far dishonest tactics, what is done to my blogging definitely is one, as people are time after time giving me YET another chance to change my ideas on things I have not wavered on the last 20 years or more, and they pretend to do so at a preliminary for taking seriously I really mean what I say.

Apart from being dishonest, it is cruel, as it leaves me poor, and over 10 000 blog posts that could feed paper printed essay collections and royalties are being repressed over giving me YET another chance.

Was there a priest who put you up to this to give me YET another chance to change my mind? Well, there are Catholic priests who constitute at least some kind of harlot to the enemies of the Catholic Church.

Simon Skinner

Author

Hans-Georg Lundahl It's a bit difficult to understand some of your points, but your English is certainly a lot better than my French 👍.

//You claim Catholics are immune from believing the flat earth conspiracy nonsense. I know that to be incorrect.

They are not displaying 'healthy skepsis', they place such a low weighting on empirical evidence and such a high weighting on their (flat earth) religion (based on rigid interpretation of the Bible and that science is biassed or dishonest) that they are convinced of the wrong reality. Their priority order for the weighting of evidence which led them to their ridiculous conclusion is exactly the same as Johnny Proctor has described in this thread.

// If they do understand the problems / objections they happily ignore them for the sake of keeping their faith and world view.

// Image and credibility before anyone rational, religious or not.

// I don't know what you mean about blog posts and essays, and no priest could put me up to this, or anything else for that matter.

Johnny Proctor

Admin

Simon, with all due respect, I asserted that Catholic geocentrists obtain their cosmological viewpoints through the sources of revelation. It is simply inaccurate to compare flat-earthers to us as there is no Tradition of Biblical interpretation that buttresses belief in a flat earth. There is a broad and venerable consensus among the Church Fathers and Doctors in the geocentric conception of the cosmos.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Johnny Proctor Do you find respect due to him, really, after his attitude?

Johnny Proctor

Admin

Hans-Georg Lundahl, as an admin, I have to be polite. 😉

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Johnny Proctor You are aware, the profile picture this "Simon Skinner" has is from a film where "Simon Skinner" is a crook played by Timothy Dalton.

Expelling people with fake profiles is also an option.

Or check if the real Simon Skinner (yes, there is one) uses the Timothy Dalton picture on FB and has denouncing Young Earth Creationism, Geocentrism as well as Flat Earth among his intellectual hobbies.

Johnny Proctor

Admin

Hans-Georg, thanks for the explanation. I hadn't scrutinized his user profile. The admin team will take your suggestions into consideration.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Simon Skinner "You claim Catholics are immune from believing the flat earth conspiracy nonsense. I know that to be incorrect."

I never spoke of "immune," nor of "from believing conspiracy nonsense".

I simply speak of not being flat earth.

If you meant you find them believing other tenets than that, and that you categorise them as "flat earth conspiracy nonsense" I find your categorisation disingenious. "Conspiracy nonsense" would do. And even then I'd like you showing examples rather than taking your word for it being so.

If you meant they often go for earth being flat, I call your bluff. Show me guys who do and who can credibly be categorised as Catholics.

"They are not displaying 'healthy skepsis',"

Totally beside the point. Displaying what you call healthy skepsis is not the normal way to get earth being round. The normal way to get earth being round is NOT to display skepsis in the face of voyage narratives.

"they place such a low weighting on empirical evidence"

I only have your word for it, and it's not good enough.

"and such a high weighting on their (flat earth) religion (based on rigid interpretation of the Bible and that science is biassed or dishonest)"

There is obviously a thing or two you could consider rigid interpretation of the Bible in Geocentrism.

I have yet to seen a coherent even rigorist argument for flat earth from the Bible, and I do interact with at least two flat earthers, one of whom recently died, Rob Skiba. It's not as if I hadn't heard flat earth arguments purportedly from taking the Bible literally.

"they are convinced of the wrong reality."

This totally doesn't sound like a compte rendu of their arguments. It sounds like psychoanalysis, i e dishonesty.

It is NOT up to shrinks to decide what's the right or the wrong reality on items like cosmology, that's just Communist politicalised psychiatry - or similar.

"Their priority order for the weighting of evidence which led them to their ridiculous conclusion is exactly the same as Johnny Proctor has described in this thread."

You have NOT shown:

• that you have any empiric evidence for Heliocentrism being true other than scientists saying so, which is not empiric evidence for the matter at hand
• that any Catholic Geocentric is flat earth
• that you care one whit about actual argument rather than calumny.

"they happily ignore them for the sake of keeping their faith and world view."

Sounds like a shrink spreading his bla bla to demonise or infantilise someone. I mean your assessment of them.

You have NOT shown this to be true.

"before anyone rational,"

You have not shown you are able to assess who is rational.

"I don't know what you mean about blog posts and essays,"

Cancel culture. Does it ring a bell?

I find that dishonest.

"no priest could put me up to this, or anything else for that matter."

Or anything else? Not even to pray three Hail Mary's in penance? Well, then you aren't a Catholic.

New Start

Simon Skinner

Author

Hans-Georg Lundahl You claim declaring that flat earthers are wrong is 'Communist politicised psychiatry". That's pretty creative. Communists, psychiatrists (and priests?) appear to be in the front of your mind..

Nature has no regard for our thoughts or politics.

I'm interested in the process by which people can employ motivated reasoning rather than empirical evidence. Flat earthers are an extreme example of this and I understand most in this group are more rational and hopefully able to converse calmly. But the fact it's taboo in this group is in itself an acknowledgement of discomfort at the similarity.

I intend no animosity and apologise if my questions have caused offense.

which

I answer twice, I and II

I

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Simon Skinner "You claim declaring that flat earthers are wrong is 'Communist politicised psychiatry". That's pretty creative. Communists, psychiatrists (and priests?) appear to be in the front of your mind.."

You are once again showing a disregard for my actual words, and a preference for analysing my mind - exactly as psychiatrists would.

You declared flat earthers wrong, so do I. BUT you declare round earth geocentrics flat earthers and therefore wrong, because they have the same mentality. Instead of arguing with round earth geocentrics on the merits of the case, as I do with flat earthers.

I think the creativity is on your side, not mine.

"I'm interested in the process by which people can employ motivated reasoning rather than empirical evidence."

Take a look into your mirror then.

You analyse geocentrics by your motivated reasoning, instead of by the evidence of their (our) words.

"But the fact it's taboo in this group"

Not I who set the policy. I have no qualms about getting to flat earthers and reasoning things out, whether four corners or Lake Michigan horizon.

Simon Skinner

Author

Hans-Georg Lundahl again with the psychiatrists ?

I didn't ever declare geocentrics flat earthers. I know most aren't. I already acknowledged that.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Your screen shot is not of something you acknowledged, but a comment of mine.

You are for BOTH stating sth about being "convinced of the wrong reality" - which sounds like a psychiatric definition of delusion.

What would I define as "wrong reality" / "delusion"? If you are 25 years old and don't speak Danish, you are deluded if you are convinced you invented LEGO.

But you seem prepared to drag in having the wrong cosmology into that.

And for neither are you dealing (at least here) with the actual arguments as arguments.

In other words, you are not a normal player on the argumentation field.

Simon Skinner

Author

Hans-Georg Lundahl Whatever this is, it's not communication. I hope you get over your issues with priests, Communists and psychiatrists.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Simon Skinner, as you speak of "issues" you confirm my suspicion you could be a kind of psychiatrist.

And dito for "it's not communication" - you set up a "communication" over your extreme ad hominems, and when I call you out as showing yourself therein something else than a normal communicator, you say "it's not communication" ... I was not all that interested in communicating with YOU in the first place.

I asked the admin to block you for taking a fake profile picture.

II

Hans-Georg Lundahl

"Communists, psychiatrists (and priests?) appear to be in the front of your mind.."

Communists and psychiatrists have a certain way of ignoring the others' argument. I had a run in with a few priests, one of whom had without any evidence called me a flat earther, and who might have somewhat Communist leanings.

Epilogue?

Alex Naszados

Admin

Since this group is emphatically not a flat earth forum, please alert an admin if you notice anything that promotes it or attempts to conflate flat earthism with the Neotychonic model. This includes posts by admins that "recycle their material"- in which case it would definitely have been in error and a correction would be much appreciated.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Alex Naszados This is also not a psychoanalysis forum.

Can one alert admins if anything suspiciously like a psychiatrist or psychologist turns up?

* He seems to have taken a film character as alias, his portrait is identic to the villain Simon Skinner of Hot Fuzz, portrayed by Timothy Dalton.

https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/Simon_Skinner