How Long is the Longest YOM Outside Genesis 1?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

status

Six Days related only.

I was just reviewing a video with a reading from Rev. Bandas, a Catholic priest who was an old earth compromiser.

He used the argument that yom could mean any period irrespective of length. I would say that precisely as in modern languages, it could mean "kairos" but never "aion" - at the longest perhaps an individual lifespan or carreere.

My example from history is, you can say "in the day of John Lackland" referring to his reign, but you would never say that or any other "in the day of" phrase for the whole of the Middle Ages.

To those better read in the Bible than I : can you think of clear counterexamples in the Bible, obviously outside this particular controversy?

I

Katrina Cook

Meilleur contributeur

The morning and the evening were the first day, ... the second day...etc., not the morning and the evening was the first thousands of years. God gave the seventh day as one day of rest because he created everything in six days, not six thousand years.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Auteur

I agree, but I was asking in order to give an exact evaluation of the argument from those seeing "day" used in other senses ...

II

Celeste Read

"the evening and the morning"

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Auteur

Celeste Read Good point, but not exactly what I was asking.

Celeste Read

almost Sabbath here now❤

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Auteur

Hope you enjoyed it.

III

Donivan Felty

Friday and Saturday had to be 24 hour days

The Sabbath began at dusk on a 24 hour Friday and ended at dusk on a 24 hour Saturday

The sabbath BY DEFINITION is a day of rest. Man will work 6 days and rest on the sabbath

You could also assume to get to the 6th and 7th day, there must have been 5 preceding days of equal length, but I’ll just put that out there. But why would one day be different than the next?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Auteur

Donivan Felty Good point, but not exactly what I was asking.

IV

Luigi Ciapparelli

Meilleur contributeur

Genesis ! : 4 and 5 God defines a day, and it was good. Evolution is like glue once anyone falls in they never get unstuck. By denying a day is a day you are 1. saying God is incapable of creating in a day 2. putting evolution ( Darwin's word) above God's Word 3. questioning God's character as He said and defined a day and meant something else 4. if you do not believe the first few sentences in the Bible then what or when do you believe anything in the Bible? That all comes under the heading of blasphemy. Evolutionists are deceivers, like satan, they either admit they are evolutionists or they keep evolution in their sticky pockets for later. You can run but you cannot hide - God sees everything. That is why God knows every motive, you may forget that but He will not.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Auteur

"By denying a day is a day you are"

I am not denying the creation days are 24 hours.

I am seeking arguments against those who misuse other Scripture passages to "prove" it could be longer.

They will not be impressed by you, since they are often enough under pastorals that encourage them to take their error for complete orthodoxy, and I am not impressed by your mistaking me for sharing it.

Luigi Ciapparelli

Meilleur contributeur

Hans-Georg Lundahl Sorry I was not referring specifically to you but those who deny a day is a day. I am also stating that you don't need to go much further than the first few verses of Genesis, where a day is defined. If you are seeking arguments against longer ages then you have my full support, and the reasons why I support a day is a day. If I gave you the wrong impression then I apologize.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Auteur

accepted!

Luigi Ciapparelli

Meilleur contributeur

Thank you Hans-Georg and thank you for accepting my apology. It was meant as a general comment and not a reply specifically for you. I would probably have worded it better in Italian. Ciao and every Blessing to You.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Auteur

Grazie!

V

Mitchell Goldberg

Every ancient Hebrew commentary without exception agree that it is 6 24 hour days like the days of our work week. Not six eras not six epochs, 6 24-hour days.

Genesis & the Big Bang - Biblical Age of the Universe, 6 Days or 13.77 billion years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN9DutcGf_Q

loL scroll to 5:34

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Auteur

Thank you, I agree, but I was asking a more specific question to answer those who don't.

VI

Rod Carty

Meilleur contributeur

Exodus 20:11 and 31:17 show that they were ordinary days, just like the days of our week.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Auteur

I would agree, but that was not what I was asking.

I am not here to decide myself on the matter, I am here to find ammo for an argument with those taking the opposite side.

One of their arguments being "in the day of" can mean sth other than "in the 24 hours of" ... my follow up question is, in the Bible, outside Genesis 1, what are the longest periods which are being referred to as "day"?

"In the days of Noah" in Matthew 24 (or whereever it was) would refer to maximally 120 years - the ones when God was planning the flooding. Very maximally, 600 years, those that Noah lived before the Flood.

Rod Carty

Meilleur contributeur

Hans-Georg Lundahl

I understand. My experience is arguments about yom will not be fruitful. That's why I gave the 2 verses I did, because they are what I use.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Auteur

I think that there is a way round what you have experienced? - can you help me out?

I tried a search in Douay Rheims, but "in the day of" had more than 500 hits so wouldn't show, and when I limited to NT, it appeared some give only some words in the phrase, and not the whole phrase.

VII

David Harley Prince

Modérateur

Meilleur contributeur

The qualifiers of evening and morning & numerical indicators conextualize "Yom" as a 24 hour period.

It is only when nouns/verbs are attatched that it becomes an epoch.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Auteur

David Harley Prince The problem is, how long can an "epoch" be and still be qualified as "the day of ..."

David Harley Prince

Modérateur

Meilleur contributeur

Hans-Georg Lundahl an epoch is indeterminate in its length. Using the descriptor "in the day of" or "in the day that" refers to the time period of that person or event.

"In the day of" King David is the time period of Davids reign.

"In the day that" God created the heavens and the earth is a refrence to the creation week that was defined in the previous chapter.

"In Noah's Day" would be a refrence to the time period of Noah's life.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Auteur

Ah - this makes (outside Genesis 1) 950 years the absolute longest record you can think of.

Really inadequate for those who would say that God used "millions of years, billions of years" and called it days in reference to that saying.

David Harley Prince

Modérateur

Meilleur contributeur

Hans-Georg Lundahl I suppose an upper limit would be what can be packed into a singular descriptor.

"In the days of" Rome would refer to the time period of roman rule.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Auteur

Do you find anything like that, exceeding "the days of Noah" in the Bible?

David Harley Prince

Modérateur

Meilleur contributeur

Hans-Georg Lundahl nothing that I can think of.

Days of Noah usualy refer to pre flood times/leading up to the flood. 120-600 year span.

In Adams day would be the first 800-950 years after being expeled from the garden.

Thats about the longest I can find an example of.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Auteur

David Harley Prince There is no part of the Bible which uses the expression "in the days of Adam" ... I search and get ...

And when a famine came in the land, after that barrenness which had happened in the days of Abraham, Isaac went to Abimelech king of the Palestines to Gerara.
[Genesis 26:1]
In the days of Samgar the son of Anath, in the days of Jahel the paths rested: and they that went by them, walked through by-ways.
[Judges 5:6]
And he judged Israel in the days of the Philistines twenty years.
[Judges 15:20]
In the days of one of the judges, when the judges ruled, there came a famine in the land. And a certain man of Bethlehem Juda, went to sojourn in the land of Moab with his wife and his two sons.
[Ruth 1:1]
Now David was the son of that Ephrathite of Bethlehem Juda before mentioned, whose name was Isai, who had eight sons, and was an old man in the days of Saul, and of great age among men.
[1 Kings (1 Samuel) 17:12]
And there was a famine in the days of David for three years successively: and David consulted the oracle of the Lord. And the Lord said: It is for Saul, and his bloody house, because he slew the Gabaonites.
[2 Kings (2 Samuel) 21:1]
Moreover all the vessels, out of which king Solomon drank, were of gold: and all the furniture of the house of the forest of Libanus was of most pure gold: there was no silver, nor was any account made of it in the days of Solomon:
[3 Kings (1 Kings) 10:21]
And the remnant also of the effeminate, who remained in the days of Asa his father, he took out of the land.
[3 Kings (1 Kings) 22:47]
In the days of Phacee king of Israel came Theglathphalasar king of Assyria, and took Aion, and Abel Domum Maacha and Janoe, and Cedes, and Asor, and Galaad, and Galilee, and all the land of Nephtali: and carried them captives into Assyria.
[4 Kings (2 Kings) 15:29]
And these whose names are written above, came in the days of Ezechias king of Juda: and they beat down their tents, and slew the inhabitants that were found there, and utterly destroyed them unto this day: and they dwelt in their place, because they found there fat pastures.
[1 Paralipomenon (1 Chronicles) 4:41]

David Harley Prince

Modérateur

Meilleur contributeur

Hans-Georg Lundahl I was just picking a name out of a hat.

You just provided the biblical refrences that show exactly my point.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Auteur

David Harley Prince Or even further reduce the timeline possible for "day" - so, my point too.

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Gerald Kahlden

Those, especially in the Religious world, that look for ways to change the days into periods of millions of years of "could have been". And then try to claim belief in God's plan of salvation, are "shooting themselves in the foot". If you believe millions of years, at what point did the first sin of man enter into the world? At what point did God appoint him the responsibility of having dominion over Creation? Can that position hold that man existed for millions of years without murders, thievery, or other sin? They have not considered God's eternal plan nor have they understood that Jesus, was there at creation. He verified that Creation was a real event. If you can't trust Him in that claim, how can you trust Him in His historically evidenced claim to be the Son of God who was witnessed to be resurrected From the dead! He is our only hope to get up out of the cemetery someday and go home to live eternally!!

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Auteur

Gerald Kahlden My dear, I was not arguing for millions of years.

My point is that things like "in the day of Saul" which they use for saying "day doesn't always mean day in the Bible" (technically correct as far as it goes, though not very relevant for creation week which has evenings and mornings), will not be much help if what you want is millions of years.