Palestine

HGL'S F.B. WRITINGS : Palestine · Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : Noahide Aberration

Roger M Pearlman

28 mars, 19:32 · shared:

Quora : Does Israel have a legitimate claim to the Golan Heights and if so, what is it?
Michael Davison, lives in Israel (1969-present)
https://www.quora.com/Does-Israel-have-a-legitimate-claim-to-the-Golan-Heights-and-if-so-what-is-it/answer/Michael-Davison-26

PC

Do they?

Roger M Pearlman

From a secular perspective yes, based on consistent application of justice.

From a religious perspective yes based on Torah and scripture including the Quran which admits The One designer/creator aka G-d of Abraham (who created all the lands) designated the lands of the west ie Levant to the children of Israel

From a historic perspective Yes, allocated to Shem by 100% binding lottery, reference in __Jubilees__

Illegally occupied by Canaan aka Og King of Bashan, who came in war and was defeated by Moses so restored to the children of Israel on our return home from Egyptian bondage in 2488 anno mundi

from a rational point of view we should go by the Golden Rule of Hillel: ie do not do to other's what we do not want others to do to us. know that G-d applies that basis of Judgement in the measure for measure application of Justice such as w/ the 10 Makos on Egypt and drowning of their army by the Exodus. Like Jethro said 'now I know..'

also measure for measure is the law for false witnesses where the judgment is 'Kaasher Zomam' as they intended to do.

so you could call it turnabout justice or perhaps Karma..

so what we have here is the occupant, illegal or not, tried to use that to capture land from Israel, unprovoked, ie not in self defense.

which means by the Golden Rule they are begging to have their land taken.

for having attacked the children of Israel on Yom Kippur w/ intent to drive the entire country into the sea, there is little doubt the civil war that began one 40 year generation later and events to this day are leading to the fulfillment of that golden rule of Justice and the fulfillment of G-d's assurance to Abraham, with our full border restored to the Euphrates.

Those law aiding G-d loving Syrian inhabitants will be much better off as they were under King David as evidenced by Toi__ of Hamath as resident aliens w/ full civil rights under their Noachide covenant of 7.

Of course it was given to the children of Israel to adhere to our eternal covenant of 613 a great portion linked to that specific land, so I suspect it will not be until we are ready, to act as the proper conduit for G-d's blessing to all decent nations, in an openly manifest manner, as was the case when at times during the Tabernacle of Moses and Holy Temple..

At that point there should be no more war as the consequence for violent baseless aggression will be worse than the potential benefit.

Just like someone would not shop-lift in front of a policeman that is going to just arrest them.

The way things are going we will be ready soon, or in it's time it will happen anyway, if we are ready sooner, before then. the easy way if we merit. those who facilitate our abiding by our eternal covenant are blessed be it in this world and or the afterlife.

even small things like being friendly to a Jew to help them keep kosher, have a proper place to pray and keep Sabbath are a source of great merit

Shem aka Malki-Tzedek king of Shalem - Jerusalem who transferred the priesthood and inheritance to Abraham, who in turn .. to Isaac .. to Jacob aka Israel.

as depicted in cover pic of see next comment

[ask Roger Pearlman about it, it was off this discussion]

Hi PC, see much more on the dispute on my Israel Restoration FB page

Best regards, your friend, rm

PC

Thanks, Rog. That was an earful 🙂

Roger M Pearlman

PC that's what ears are for :) two for every mouth .

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Roger M Pearlman "to the children of Israel"

On your view, does that include or exclude Palestinians?

Roger M Pearlman

Hans-Georg Lundahl well the original 'Palestinians are/were the Children of Israel as Rome renamed Israel/Judea Palestine. But the modern Palestinians are mostly immigrants from Arab lands a lot of whom came for Zionist inspired Job opportunities and those here longer were transplants by Assyria to replace the 10 tribes and some are Amalikites and the like. from Eisav and Ishmael.

some could be Jewish from Jewish captive/slave women or forced converts.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

"But the modern Palestinians are mostly immigrants from Arab lands"

Why do you say so?

"some could be Jewish from Jewish captive/slave women or forced converts."

Jews, Samarians, Galilaeans converted without force to Christianity.

Some of these tribes were later forced to become Muslims.

Roger M Pearlman

Hans-Georg Lundahl to be defined 'Palestinian; refugee status by the UN one need have merely claimed to have been in Israel for 2 years by 1948 or be the child of a migrant worker that claimed to have been there two years. There was tremendous financial incentive for those who were just visiting/passing through, or were not even there at all to go and sign up. It would be like latin America now where you just make it to the American border, say you have been there for two years no questions asked and you get US citizenship and benefits and get to claim whatever land you squat in in CA. or Texas as your ancestral land. Compared to being subject to drug lords and corrupt officials, poverty and violence back home, you might live the lie too.

The UN perpetrates the lie to undermine the Jewish state.

Also keep in mind the population transfer with more Jewish refugees displaced and evicted without compensation from Arab counties than Arab refugees from Israel. even w/ the padded Arab stats and the fact most left voluntarily at the request of the invading Arab armies, that by divine intervention failed in their plot to defy the will of G-d , ie the promised restoration of Jewish Israel. The greening of the land over the past 100 years and rebuilding of our forsaken cities being a strong sign in progress. see the scriptural reading Haftorah Parshas Parah from this past Shabbos.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

"to be defined 'Palestinian; refugee status by the UN"

OK, was there a population in the area before this definition?

I am aware there was an influx into Palestine from Algeria and Cirkassia after a pogrom in the 1860's.

I do not think that Christian Palestinians in Bethlehem or Nazareth are mainly concerned with that.

"Also keep in mind the population transfer with more Jewish refugees displaced and evicted without compensation from Arab counties than Arab refugees from Israel."

Very possible, but this is a totally separate question from the fact that Palestinian local population of Christian and Muslim confession if and insofar as stable are descending (except as said later influx) from Judea, Samaria and Galilea 2000 years ago.

1,900,000 1948
0,700,000 1920
1,200,000 population growth overall

608,000 1948
015,000 1920
593,000 population growth of Jews

1,200,000 population growth overall
0,593,000 population growth of Jews
0,607,000 population growth of Arabs < than doubling

Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)#British_Mandate_era

Roger M Pearlman

Hans-Georg Lundahl 15k out of 700k in 1920 seems off, perhaps WW I a factor , check out pop studies of Jerusalem alone and over 15k Jews prior to 1920?

either way reminds me of the scripture 'the more they oppressed us the greater/more numerous we grew' that growth despite the pogroms like Hevron 1928, the white papers, the wars..

Hans-Georg Lundahl

"check out pop studies of Jerusalem alone and over 15k Jews prior to 1920"

Which ones would you recommend?

If you mean one from 1850, let's recall that there was a pogrom expelling Jews some time in the 1860's.

Impossible de publier ce commentaire. Réessayez.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

"check out pop studies of Jerusalem alone and over 15k Jews prior to 1920"

Which ones would you recommend?

If you mean one from 1850, let's recall that there was a pogrom expelling Jews some time in the 1860's.

It remained impossible, so the discussion was de facto broken off by FB. A long saga by now has muted my comments on FB. It starts here : Is AI a Threat to Man? (5.III.2019) and goes on even today (11.IV.2019) : Still Not Over.

Instead of possibly futile attempts to argue under Pearlman's status, there are other possibilities, like completing the argument about population here and making it a new post on his wall.

He said: "15k out of 700k in 1920 seems off, perhaps WW I a factor , check out pop studies of Jerusalem alone and over 15k Jews prior to 1920?"

Well, I couldn't ask him which ones he recommended, so I went here:

Wikipedia : Demographic history of Jerusalem a linea : Muslim or Jewish "relative majority"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Jerusalem#Muslim_or_Jewish_%22relative_majority%22

Previous to British mandate, we don't find over 15 000 Jews in Jerusalem only.







Now, what happens after this?

The Jewish population of Jerusalem, as for wider Palestine, increased further during the Third Aliyah of 1919–23 following the Balfour Declaration. Prior to this, a British survey in 1919 noted that most Jews in Jerusalem were largely Orthodox and that a minority were Zionists.

Was the third Aliyah legal or land robbery?

Well, either way, there is a difference for census between 1905 and 1922:

1905
Jews	Muslims	Christians	Total
13,300	11,000	8,100	32,400
Source	1905 Ottoman census (only Ottoman citizens)
Cited	U.O.Schmelz[55]
1922
Jews	Muslims	Christians	Total
33,971	13,413	14,669	62,578
Source	Census of Palestine (British)
Cited	Harrel and Stendel, 1974

So, the guys who really were immigrating were in fact Jews.

Now, previous to that, we have some significant immigration from other Arab or Muslim lands:

Significant Egyptian migration to Palestine happened at the end of the 18th century due to a severe famine in Egypt, and several waves of Egyptian immigrants came even earlier due to escape natural disasters such as droughts and plagues, government oppression, taxes, and military conscription. Although many Palestinian Arabs also moved to Egypt, Egyptian immigration to Palestine was more dominant. In the 19th century, large numbers of Egyptians fled to Palestine to escape the military conscription and forced labor projects in the Nile Delta under Muhammad Ali. Following the First Egyptian-Ottoman War, which saw the Egyptian conquest of Palestine, more Egyptians were brought to Palestine as forced laborers. Following the Second Egyptian-Ottoman War, which saw Egyptian rule in Palestine terminated, massive numbers of soldiers deserted during the Egyptian army's retreat from Palestine to permanently settle there. Egyptians settled mainly in Jaffa, the Coastal plain, Samaria and in Wadi Ara. In the southern plain there were 19 villages with Egyptian populations, while in Jaffa there were some 500 Egyptian families with a population of over 2,000 people. The largest rural concentration of Egyptian immigrants was in the Sharon region.[41] According to David Grossman, statistics show the number of Egyptian immigrants to Palestine between 1829 and 1841 exceeded 15,000, and he estimated that it was at least 23,000 and possibly up to 30,000.[42] In 1860, there was significant immigration to Safed by Moorish (i.e. Arab-Berber) tribes from Algeria and a small number of Kurds, while some 6,000 Arabs from the Beni Sakhr tribe immigrated to Palestine from what is now Jordan to settle in Tiberias. In addition, considerable numbers of Turks stationed in Palestine to garrison the land settled there.[43]

In 1878, following Austro-Hungarian occupation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, many Bosnian Muslims, apprehensive of living under Christian rule, emigrated to the Ottoman Empire, and significant numbers went to Palestine, where most adopted the surname Bushnak. To this day, Bushnak remains a common surname among Palestinians of Bosnian origin.[44]

Obviously, Christian Palestinians are not concerned by the Bushnak immigration. The Beni Sakhr tribe being in a land which had already seen back in Roman times Judah and Ephraim (Jews and Samarians of Christian confession) conquering Edom Moab and Ammon may be Edomoites, Moabites or Ammonites (and therefore "thy brethren" see Deuteronomy 23:7) or may be Jews and Samarians, either way once Christians, and later willingly or by force becoming Muslims.

The immigration from Algeria is obviously not descended from Judah or Ephraim, and, like the Bushnaks, it is a Muslim Palestinian only problem. Christian Palestinians are not concerned by this.

The immigration from Egypt now ... the ones who fled from forced conscription were obviously only involved in the Muslim Palestinian population, Christians were not likely to be conscripts even under Muhammed Ali (rather he was a boon to Egypt's Christians), so Christian Palestinians are once again not concerned. Also, when it comes to Egypt, one wonders how much Deuteronomy 23:7 may apply.

As to the religious side, both Roger Pearlman and I have, from very different perspectives, alluded to Isaiah 11 without directly saying so. I think it was already fulfilled back in AD 33 (verse 10/11 with 12 for Easter/Pentecost), following years when Church of Jerusalem founded Church of Samaria (verse 13), AD 70 at the flight to Pella in Jordan (14, possibly considering Romans as Greeks and therefore Philistines), and whenever Egypt and Assyria became Christian majority (verses 15 and 16). He presumably thinks Isaiah 11 still remains to be fulfilled.

Now, one more thing, Zuckerberg is censoring this:



Ah, it is the blog as such:



Pearlman is meanwhile sharing it on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/PearlmanCTA/status/1116342945416794112