Debating Mainly on Trutherism, part III, in which I come out as an Austrofascist and Distributist, While Defending Myself

AO

DRP Hans crossed the line, finally. I'm a Jew. Read what he just wrote. NOW I WANT HIM BANNED! HE'S A NAZI. Please read everyone!!!

EY

Read the line, thought it was excessive. Not delineating on Israel policy, but lumping Jews together was not warrented.

AO

Excerpt from Hans-George : "But Chomsky being a Jew, he might have taken his infor about me..." I hate Nazis.

RF

AO, these Chomsky Facebook pages are crawling with anti-semites and paranoid, foaming at the mouth conspiracy theorists.

The logic of the 9/11 conspiracies doesn't even make sense. They say that the US had to attack itself on 9/11 to provide justification for war (although I'm sure we can conceive of easier ways to justify wars, as the US has, than planning and executing an elaborate conspiracy involving literally thousands of people who would have to keep their mouths shut, and successfully and carefully rig three skyscrapers with explosives without anyone seeing them).

The US didn't invade Iraq until March 2003, after it concocted ludicrous tales about WMD in order to get in there. Why would the US blame and embarrass its closest ally, Saudi Arabia? 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. Why not just blame Iraq immediately and then go in?

There's not even an internal logic to the conspiracies.. They're messed up...

SSm

People who start becoming anti-Semitic here I, and several others, are going to be right up in your face, so shut the fuck up.

AO

"Illinois Nazis. I hate Illinois Nazis." The Blue Brothers

SSm

I just hate Nazis, period. They have a collective IQ of minus 1000

AO

"...but I sure as hell didn't come down from the goddamn Smoky Mountains, cross five thousand miles of water, fight my way through half of Sicily and jump out of a fuckin' air-o-plane to teach the Nazis lessons in humanity. Nazi ain't got no humanity." Inglorious Basterds.

I'll stop now. I've made my point.

SSm

Inglorious Basterds was an amazing movie. I want to watch it again now that your mentioned it.

Anyway, I think most of us would agree that 911 truthers are nutters and safely can be ignored. The rest of us who are involved in real social justice work can carry on without them as all of them can fit inside phone booth.

AO

RF, I personally wouldn't underestimate the Bush family. Look into their history in American politics. George Sr. was head of the CIA for years. Also, we didn't "embarrass the Saudis." We put frickin' air bases there for convenience. Nope. They were our "friends." I don't claim to know what they knew or did, but I wouldn't put anything past them.

RF

This is an original scalped Nazi head/bust from INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS. In my original movie prop collection.

[Not reproducing picture he showed on thread.]

AO, no one doubts the US can commit atrocities, and has. Says nothing about atrocities perpetrated AGAINST the US. If the US had attacked itself in order to get into Iraq, why would they embarrass themselves and their ally Saudi Arabia? Why not just blame Iraq?

DRP

I don't agree with chomsky 100%. But racial/ethnic slurs are not appropriate.

Block anyone you find offensive and do not engage them.

RF

Peer reviewed science:

Reddit : Compilation of Scientific Literature that Directly Cites to and Support's NIST's WTC 7 report's methodologies and conclusions (self.skeptic)
"soumis 9 mois de ça * par benthamitemetric"
http://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments/294k95/compilation_of_scientific_literature_that/

NIST [ National Institute of Standards and Technology's web site.] : Page Not Available
http://www.nist.gov/.../disaster.../wtc/wtc_finalreports.cfm

NIST : NIST NCSTAR 1A
Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster
http://www.nist.gov/customcf/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=861610

HGL

"I'm a Jew. Read what he just wrote. NOW I WANT HIM BANNED! HE'S A NAZI."

No, I am not. I am Austrofascist and Distributist, but not Nazi.

Being critical about Jewry does not add up to being a Nazi.

However hysteric some networks in that precise ethnicity may be about the subject.

I think Hitler did some good things and bungled some other good things. Dealing correctly with Jewry and dealing correctly with Communism are in my view two things he seriously bungled.

In "Antisemitism" as one can no longer call it, Hitler should have been content with lectures given by Karl Lueger, without adding Prussian or Progressive or both "efficiency" to it. In Anticommunism, he could have taken a few lessons given by Pilsudski.

EY " but lumping Jews together was not warrented."

I have been dealing with quite a few different portions of the "lumping together" the last ten years to my loss, so far.

Like "But Chomsky being a Jew, he might have taken his infor about me..."

First of all, the word MIGHT means there might also be Jews who do not do so, second, this way of dealing with information about persons is one I have found very prevalent in Jewry as far as I have seen it.

I am NOT saying they are alone. Muslims, Protestants, Freemasons are about the same, and add some Vatican-II-ists to that lump too.

RF "AO, these Chomsky Facebook pages are crawling with anti-semites and paranoid, foaming at the mouth conspiracy theorists"

I guess "paranoid, foaming at the mouth" was the way in which any critics of Nelson Rockefeller's project between 1962 and 1973 were discredited.

If there were ANY kind of purported leaks from purported insiders to the kind of plot we deal with according to Truthers, such purported leaks were extremely probably dealt with exactly same way.

Since some guys here took up "Inglorious Basterds":

deretour : Libération de Paris 1944 ... et après?
http://hglundahlsblog.blogspot.com/2009/08/liberation-de-paris-1944-et-apres.html

Due to a spelling mistake (whether original or added by hacking), I could not find it searching on Inglorious. I have now to correct a fault "inglourious". But I found it searching "basterds".

[was it a fault or was the title already misspelled?]

Point is, I am a bit allergic to the idea "Nazis are bad. Therefore any Nazi is bad. Therefore all and each and every Nazi is bad".

A Swedish diplomat may have contributed at one point to saving Paris from destruction, but certainly on one point so did Ernst Jünger. A Wehrmacht officer stationed in Paris and one whom Hitler respected enough ("In Stahlgewittern" was his alternative to Erich Maria Rémarque, if that means anything to you) to at that point listen to him.

In Assisi also, there was a Wehrmacht officer who pretty actively looked through the fingers when Father Ruffino Niccacci was the local version of Schindler (perhaps more efficient than Schindler too) and the local Mayor, who was of course a Fascist, helped too.

If you enjoyed Schindler's List, go and see The Assisi Underground.

[I read it as a pocket book, heard there is a film too.]

SSm "Anyway, I think most of us would agree that 911 truthers are nutters and safely can be ignored. The rest of us who are involved in real social justice work can carry on without them as all of them can fit inside phone booth."

I am very sure someone objected to building of Twin Towers. Some occasion between 62 and 73.

I am also very sure they were totally ignored and I am equally sure the tactics making them ignorable are exactly the same you are using against Truthers.

PLUS I am very sure Nelson Rockefeller was on some level in the know about that and condoned it.

An intellectual back then (also a linguist, though as an avid reader of Beowulf and of Gawain and the Green Knight he preferred the term philologer) in a Letter wrote "we are all in God's hands. But he does not look kindly on Babel builders". He wrote about founding of United Nations, in which Nelson Rockefeller was also involved, not yet about Twin Towers.

He died the year Twin Towers were completed.

He had many readers.

SOME one of them might have lived in New York State. SOME one of them might have tried to tell people it was a bad idea.

And that one reader of The Two Towers may have been "fitted inside the phone booth" as SSm had the finesse to put it.

"The logic of the 9/11 conspiracies doesn't even make sense. They say that the US had to attack itself on 9/11 to provide justification for war ... The US didn't invade Iraq until March 2003, after it concocted ludicrous tales about WMD in order to get in there."

You forget that the Afghanistan War broke out very shortly after 9/11.

On the very flimsy excuse that Osama was behind it (which he had not admitted and one had no publically declared way of knowing) and Taliban had given him hospitality. The Taliban on the other hand answered that Osama was no longer there.

You forget that it involved declaring a "war on terror" (which has not been won and very likely won't, because it is conducted in ways which will provoke new terrorists and which will provoke acts which may be stamped as terrorist acts) and grand talk (like Nelson Rockefeller back when pre-founding UNO in 45) about a "new world order".

You also forget that this talk was equally made by Woodrow Wilson when he blamed Austria for the kind of Ultimatum against Serbia about Gavril Princip, which Bush made against Taliban about Osama Bin Laden.

"There's not even an internal logic to the conspiracies.. They're messed up..."

When they are quoted by you, they sure are!

DRP "I don't agree with chomsky 100%. But racial/ethnic slurs are not appropriate."

It was meant as an excuse, if the speculation should be true.

Some habits die hard in their native soil. Asking Jews not to depend on oral information from dependable sources might feel to some of them as if I had asked Scotsmen not to wear kilt.

And by dependable sources, I of course mean "dependable sources".

[I think I have detected that habit in Catholics of such extraction as well – unless I would in that case be prejudiced and wrong about the « extraction » part.]

RF, I thank you very much for a link to NIST which, if correct, on the one hand proves Mgr Williamson, Pope Michael and a few other men I respect more than most here wrong on a point which I don't think the less of them for being wrong on, they were not pretending to be physicists, and on the other provides I think more than 40 names proving Nelson Rockefeller took a technical risk, which cost about 5000 lives. I e proves that Governor of New York Rockefeller was incompetent at best or a crook at worst.

I don't think Pope Michael will excommunicate me for going on this line rather than on more Classical Truther lines.

You see, Catholicism does not function like "Pope sneezes, everyone has a cold" or one has to agree with each and every opinion he has.

Even if "Pope Francis" might seem to be trying subreptitiously to change that in his version of the Catholic Church.

By the way, Rockefeller is not Jewish, his ancestors are Huguenots.

French Huguenots, as I heard from a French Canadian priest who spoke out in 1983.